Very noticeable improvements in brain fog using Dr Greg Russell-Jones's transdermal B12 oils (which provide a similar dose to B12 injections)

[Jadzhia]

Apologies if this has been mentioned (I've scoured for it though !) but I've just ordered the full RnB protocol (I + Se + Mo + B12 both forms) and I'd like to know what the best B2 form would be to go along with it.
Preferably the most "bio-available" ofc, and I take it just regular oral is fine. Dr. Russell-Jones gives the dosage for it on the website (first start with 2 mg, etc...), but doesn't mention form.

Yep, just regular oral form. Greg doesn't like the riboflavin-5-phopshate form, just stick to plain old riboflavin!

 

[Johnmac]

Apologies if this has been mentioned (I've scoured for it though !) but I've just ordered the full RnB protocol (I + Se + Mo + B12 both forms) and I'd like to know what the best B2 form would be to go along with it.
Preferably the most "bio-available" ofc, and I take it just regular oral is fine. Dr. Russell-Jones gives the dosage for it on the website (first start with 2 mg, etc...), but doesn't mention form.

If you joined the Understanding B12 Deficiency facebook page, they cd tell u.

 

[Jo86]

If you joined the Understanding B12 Deficiency facebook page, they cd tell u.

I tried getting in - twice ! They wouldn't let me in. I answered their pre-joining questions "correctly", mentioned Dr. Russell-Jones and everything, but I'd return a couple days later and find I'd been rejected, and even blocked (the facebook group wouldn't even appear for me anymore). Then I tried again a week later, exact same thing. Trust me, I'd love to get in.

 

[Jadzhia]

I tried getting in - twice ! They wouldn't let me in. I answered their pre-joining questions "correctly", mentioned Dr. Russell-Jones and everything, but I'd return a couple days later and find I'd been rejected, and even blocked (the facebook group wouldn't even appear for me anymore). Then I tried again a week later, exact same thing. Trust me, I'd love to get in.

I highly doubt you were blocked. The group 'disappears' whenever it is archived to everyone but members, and it's archived a lot - weekends and Wednesdays if memory serves. That's really frustrating you haven't been able to join!

 

[Jo86]

Hey people. Have a read (not technical, not long) from Dr. Russell-Jones' page on specifically CFS + B12 deficiency. You may've missed it. Good summary, and a bit comforting (putting names on things, etc).

http://www.vitaminb12deficiency.net.au/VB12CFS.htm

 

[Jo86]

I got a bit of a trivial question...
in Dr. Greg's RnB protocol (https://b12oils.com/rnb.htm) he mentions to get B2 Riboflavin (after Iodine, Selenium and Molybdenum) but he says to start at 2 mg (then 5 mg then 10 mg). I can't find such small amounts online, all B2 bottles start at 100 mg. I can only find such small B2 quantities in B Complexes, but I don't want to add all those other B Vitamins. How did you guys go about that ?

 

[dannybex]

@Jo86, I just open a capsule and pour out a few crumbs. I'm not sure why he says mentions those specific amounts. I don't think he ever takes into account that we might not absorb everything we put in our mouths or even on our skin. I mean people take 400mgs of B2/day for migraines and aren't falling apart...

 

[Jadzhia]

@Jo86, I just open a capsule and pour out a few crumbs. I'm not sure why he says mentions those specific amounts. I don't think he ever takes into account that we might not absorb everything we put in our mouths or even on our skin. I mean people take 400mgs of B2/day for migraines and aren't falling apart...

Since I'd already been taking a strong B-complex (50 mg of many of them, including B2) prior to starting Greg's protocol, I basically ignored that and just carried on! Currently I'm taking 150 mg daily as since having Covid I really went backwards with a lot of symptoms returning. I think Greg is trying to cover those folk that do react very strongly even to tiny amounts (not only of B2, but any of his recommended cofactors - I know I had to go down to 12 mcg of iodine before I got rid of adrenaline reactions, before slowly increasing over a couple of months to 300 mcg.

 

[Jo86]

Since I'd already been taking a strong B-complex (50 mg of many of them, including B2) prior to starting Greg's protocol, I basically ignored that and just carried on! Currently I'm taking 150 mg daily as since having Covid I really went backwards with a lot of symptoms returning. I think Greg is trying to cover those folk that do react very strongly even to tiny amounts (not only of B2, but any of his recommended cofactors - I know I had to go down to 12 mcg of iodine before I got rid of adrenaline reactions, before slowly increasing over a couple of months to 300 mcg.

that's interesting, what "adrenaline reactions" did you get ? And how were you sure it was from the iodide, and that it was indeed adrenaline ?

 

[Jo86]

Hey btw, with each product gradually added to the protocol (Iodide, selenium...) Dr. R-Jones advises against certain foods: goitrogens (leafy greens), and then against Vit C and Calcium dense foods. So I've had to quit all citrus fruit, kiwis... all cheeses, yogurt, my protein powder...

When do you eventually incorporate them back into the diet ?

 

[Jadzhia]

that's interesting, what "adrenaline reactions" did you get ? And how were you sure it was from the iodide, and that it was indeed adrenaline ?

Good questions! Well, since the iodide was the only thing I'd added, the reactions were most likely down to that. Also, they disappeared once I reduced the dosage. When I increased again after a week, I had a slight recurrance of symptoms. I had the same thing happen when adding selenite, and again (and worse) with Molybdenum. All reactions disappeared as I lowered the dose and increased more slowly. The reactions were an increase in heart rate, headache, feeling 'wired'.

The idea behind the reactions being caused by release of adrenaline (according to Greg) is that if one is B12 deficient then we will have adrenal insufficiency, and so have more adrenaline receptors on our cell membranes in order to try to capture the adrenaline when it does appear. Once any part of the 'energy cascade' from Iodine to the thyroid is activated by adding in more of one of the cascade nutrients, then more adrenaline is produced and can enter the cells, which take in too much due to having too many receptors. I don't know if he has any research to prove this, I haven't looked into it. He says add in more potassium foods if you get those reactions. I did just find a snippet from Greg that says we need the MAO enzyme to inactivate excess adrenaline, but for people who are B2 deficient, this doesn't work well as MAO is less active.

An awful lot of folk in the FB group of Greg's do get these reactions, some after adding in just a tiny amount of any of Iodide, selenite, molybdate, B2, B12... the list goes on!

Hey btw, with each product gradually added to the protocol (Iodide, selenium...) Dr. R-Jones advises against certain foods: goitrogens (leafy greens), and then against Vit C and Calcium dense foods. So I've had to quit all citrus fruit, kiwis... all cheeses, yogurt, my protein powder...

When do you eventually incorporate them back into the diet ?

I never eliminated them. This is because I already have a very reduced diet due to histamine intolerance and oxalate issues. If I was to eliminate all the brassicas as well I'd have reduced my nutrient intake even further. Anyway cooking those veg helps to reduce goitrogens, and I don't eat masses of them. I don't take Vit C supplements because I an an endogenous converter of it to oxalate. I quit orange juice for that reason, also citrus generally because of the histamine issues.

I wasn't aware he is against Calcium foods? He's very pro eating 3 servings of dairy daily. What is he anti is taking Ca supplements, possibly because they bind to some of the nutrients we are trying to increase (i.e. selenite and molybdate) and inactivates them. If you are taking I/Se/Mo orally, then just take them at a different time to Ca-rich foods.

Personally I am not a fan at all of eliminating foods (apart from processed ones) because you are just reducing your nutrients further and decreasing food variety (who knows what effect that may be having on your gut microbiome?). I took dairy out of my diet for a year because 'it might help lower your thyroid antibodies', but it did not and I developed histamine/oxalate problems after doing so. It has taken me a long time to reintroduce yoghurt (which I loved and used to eat a lot of) also have managed to get back mild Cheddar and cottage cheese. Honestly eliminating all the foods you've listed doesn't sound like a good idea to me, based on my personal experiences.

 

[Jo86]

.

In his protocol here, https://b12oils.com/rnb.htm
he mentions:
"Avoid natural source of Calcium, as these bind up the Selenite, thus avoid giving the material in milk".

 

[Jadzhia]

In his protocol here, https://b12oils.com/rnb.htm
he mentions:
"Avoid natural source of Calcium, as these bind up the Selenite, thus avoid giving the material in milk".

The key point being, don't give Se or Mo with Calcium-rich foods, not don't eat Calcium rich foods at all.

Notice how those points go on to mention using the Se/Mo oils as they bypass the oral route and so no interactions occur.

 

[Jo86]

The key point being, don't give Se or Mo with Calcium-rich foods, not don't eat Calcium rich foods at all.

sorry to insist, but are you saying: we shouldn't have high calcium foods WHILE taking SE or Mo, but that it'd be fine to have high calcium food later in the day, hours later, AFTER taking the Se or Mo ?
the transdermal formula bypasses the oral route, I know, but can never be too sure as I want the treatment to be as effective as possible so, I'm "not taking any chances".

 

[Jadzhia]

sorry to insist, but are you saying: we shouldn't have high calcium foods WHILE taking SE or Mo, but that it'd be fine to have high calcium food later in the day, hours later, AFTER taking the Se or Mo ?
the transdermal formula bypasses the oral route, I know, but can never be too sure as I want the treatment to be as effective as possible so, I'm "not taking any chances".

The latter, take your high calcium food later on in the day, well away from the I/Se/Mo.

 

[Jo86]

I do have to take potassium (gluconate) daily. This started when I added in methylfolate in 2010, which caused my potassium levels to tank.

Hi. How do you know the K levels dropped ? Did you just get a hair analysis done some time after starting the B12 protocol, or is there a symptom that you felt to know it was potassium ?

Also, I'm looking to buy a Potassium supplement, but I'm finding mostly potassium citrate, and Dr. G.RJ says citric acid is to be avoided (bad for selenium and molybdenum absorption). Would Potassium citrate work here within the B12 protocol, does anyone know ? (I've found gluconate forms too but much smaller doses/more expensive).

 

[dannybex]

@Jo86 You can get both potassium chloride or potassium bicarbonate in bulk (small bags), so you can measure out any amount you want, or Life Extension makes a potassium bicarbonate supplement.

 

[Mary]

Hi. How do you know the K levels dropped ? Did you just get a hair analysis done some time after starting the B12 protocol, or is there a symptom that you felt to know it was potassium ?

Also, I'm looking to buy a Potassium supplement, but I'm finding mostly potassium citrate, and Dr. G.RJ says citric acid is to be avoided (bad for selenium and molybdenum absorption). Would Potassium citrate work here within the B12 protocol, does anyone know ? (I've found gluconate forms too but much smaller doses/more expensive).

Hi - here's a thread I did some years ago about potassium and methylation and my experience: Are you feeling bad on methylation supps? or starting methylation? IMPORTANT INFO RE LOW POTASSIUM | Phoenix Rising ME/CFS Forums

I went by symptoms of low potassium (sudden onset severe fatigue within a few days of starting methylfolate). Also, blood tests for potassium can be misleading - it's explained in the thread. Symptoms of low potassium can include: Symptoms of Low Potassium (Hypokalemia) (healthline.com)

I use potassium gluconate, I buy it from Swanson's, it's not too expensive.

 

[Johnmac]

I think it's fair to say that the Greg Russell-Jones B12 protocol - the transdermal oils + the transdermai iodine/selenium.molybdenum mix + oral B2 - have cured my pretty bad 3-year case of chronic fatigue.

I am also much more able to eat foods with oxalate, histamine & salicylate (OHS) in them than I was 6 months ago.

There have been numerous other improvements as well.

 

[Hip]

I think it's fair to say that the Greg Russell-Jones B12 protocol - the transdermal oils + the transdermai iodine/selenium.molybdenum mix + oral B2 - have cured my pretty bad 3-year case of chronic fatigue.

Are you full remission because of this B12 protocol?

Before you started on the B12 treatment, where would you say you were on the ME/CFS scale of: very severe, severe, moderate, mild, remission?