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podcast: about how the mrna vaccine works and what it pros / cons are

sunshine44

Que sera sera
Messages
1,166
Isn’t it pretty strange how we are told to not entertain ‘conspiracy theories’ and that sharing studies or opinions about v****** can injure humanity….. yet, millions of people are deeply suffering with me/cfs. Dying, fighting to survive and so many like myself have lost the ability to walk, bathe etc. but …. It’s crickets.

If I were to make any inferences… the silence on important diseases and intentional roadblocks is astounding.

Yet, boy howdy if you try to discuss multiple views of how vaccines( ingredients) may be affecting humanity. There are strong measures in place to make it not ok to even contemplate the ‘proven science’ and have any opinion of it other than what the government wants you to have.

Yet, I know many people with adverse vaccine reactions. Yet we aren’t allowed to discuss it. Push it under the rug and move on. Don’t dwell on it too long. Must be a fluke. Just ‘proof’ it’s working.
 

linusbert

Senior Member
Messages
1,172
Critical thinking - outside-the-box thinking is not welcome,
that part is discussed from minute 28 on, and makes a lot of sense.

Isn’t it pretty strange how we are told to not entertain ‘conspiracy theories’ and that sharing studies or opinions about v****** can injure humanity….. yet, millions of people are deeply suffering with me/cfs. Dying, fighting to survive and so many like myself have lost the ability to walk, bathe etc. but …. It’s crickets.

If I were to make any inferences… the silence on important diseases and intentional roadblocks is astounding.

Yet, boy howdy if you try to discuss multiple views of how vaccines( ingredients) may be affecting humanity. There are strong measures in place to make it not ok to even contemplate the ‘proven science’ and have any opinion of it other than what the government wants you to have.

Yet, I know many people with adverse vaccine reactions. Yet we aren’t allowed to discuss it. Push it under the rug and move on. Don’t dwell on it too long. Must be a fluke. Just ‘proof’ it’s working.
that part is discussed in minutes 1-28. alone the mechanism how mrna works. you cannot control where it lands. its like a virus, injecting its rna into cells. and you cannot control which ones. usually it only should be at injection site, but that you cannot control much. if they hit a vessel it gets everywhere, next stop heart... etc. its really bad.
they shouldnt inject this at all. actually the best mechanism would be - i believe imho - if they place it where normal infection would occur, maybe a spray to nose and throat. also immune system is most strong there and adapted over thousands of millenia to expect new virus and bacteria there and make a immune response.
in general the idea of mrna transfection gene therapy isnt bad. but how they do it now its really bad.
a lot of great minds like Elon Musk and even Bret Weinstein speak highly of this technology. maybe they will cure cancer at some point with this.


the most stupid thing is not to believe in a conspiracy theory but to actually believe there are no conspiracies going on.
conspiracies are just everywhere, starts at home, at workplace, in small companys, in big companies and also in rich elite circles. the question isnt IF but WHAT.
but as they say, the biggest trick of the devil was to convince people he doesnt exist.
 

sunshine44

Que sera sera
Messages
1,166
that part is discussed from minute 28 on, and makes a lot of sense.


that part is discussed in minutes 1-28. alone the mechanism how mrna works. you cannot control where it lands. its like a virus, injecting its rna into cells. and you cannot control which ones. usually it only should be at injection site, but that you cannot control much. if they hit a vessel it gets everywhere, next stop heart... etc. its really bad.
they shouldnt inject this at all. actually the best mechanism would be - i believe imho - if they place it where normal infection would occur, maybe a spray to nose and throat. also immune system is most strong there and adapted over thousands of millenia to expect new virus and bacteria there and make a immune response.
in general the idea of mrna transfection gene therapy isnt bad. but how they do it now its really bad.
a lot of great minds like Elon Musk and even Bret Weinstein speak highly of this technology. maybe they will cure cancer at some point with this.


the most stupid thing is not to believe in a conspiracy theory but to actually believe there are no conspiracies going on.
conspiracies are just everywhere, starts at home, at workplace, in small companys, in big companies and also in rich elite circles. the question isnt IF but WHAT.
but as they say, the biggest trick of the devil was to convince people he doesnt exist.


Boom.

I just read that quote in a book last night about the devil. Book is ‘pawns in the game’ by commander William carr.
 

hapl808

Senior Member
Messages
2,117
My problem with him is the same I have with people on all sides - they show incredible and needed skepticism when something challenges their preconceptions, but accept all kinds of shoddy science when it supports them.

So someone like him practices laudable scientific rigor when questioning the risk reward calculation of vaccines, but suddenly accepts shoddy science when he's questioning the validity of non-vaccine-related Long Covid or whatever.

I listened to him for awhile when I thought he was raising questions in a non-histrionic manner, but he became very predictable and one-note. If I already know how someone will respond to every research paper or article, then I have to need to listen to them.
 

linusbert

Senior Member
Messages
1,172
My problem with him is the same I have with people on all sides - they show incredible and needed skepticism when something challenges their preconceptions, but accept all kinds of shoddy science when it supports them.

So someone like him practices laudable scientific rigor when questioning the risk reward calculation of vaccines, but suddenly accepts shoddy science when he's questioning the validity of non-vaccine-related Long Covid or whatever.

I listened to him for awhile when I thought he was raising questions in a non-histrionic manner, but he became very predictable and one-note. If I already know how someone will respond to every research paper or article, then I have to need to listen to them.
what argumentations are there? can you make some point the one side makes as well the other?
 

hapl808

Senior Member
Messages
2,117
what argumentations are there? can you make some point the one side makes as well the other?

Not totally sure I understand the question?

For example, someone will tear apart any study that mentions any potential benefit of the vaccines. The questions aren't wrong, just incredibly rigorous and skeptical. Showing correlation isn't causation, questioning confidence intervals, etc. But as soon as a study mentions any potential harms of vaccines, they won't question them at all.

On the other side, someone will tear apart any study that mentions the possibility of vaccine harm. Again, they're not wrong - just incredibly rigorous, questioning causality, bringing up confounders. But as soon as a study mentions any benefits of vaccines, all rigor disappears.

I just want consistency. Same way I try to be equally critical of Weinstein, Fauci, RFK, Monica Gandhi, etc. I'm put off by dogmatic self-proclaimed leaders - always have been.
 

linusbert

Senior Member
Messages
1,172
thats meta discussion, not talking about contents and arguments but about the people who make the arguments. discrediting.

its actually easy, just remove the side which does the discrediting and suppression of any discussion - those are usually the fascists and ideologues and hear the people who actually come out with arguments.

one side is like "dr faucci is wrong because argument a , B , c... " and the other side is "the person who criticised is wrong because its a bad stupid person having connection to A, B ,C"

then we need to compare arguments and counterarguments. <-- and this part is completely missing in the "debate", i never hear any arguments. i want a list of arguments and counterarguments.
or a debate between those "experts" talking it out so we can hear their argumentation, but there is plain non.

also exclude any "research" being funded by the manufacturer of the product and the government and related bodies which is funded by the manufacturer of the product.

also research is manipulated so easily that normal people cannot understand it, we cannot take studys and just read the conclussion part. those studies need to be checked by real independent scientists who can detect errors in study design and interpret the raw data.
so everytime there are battles where people just throw around studies, its completely useless. we do not know which studys are actually good and what are misleading.

there were renowend scientistics in that area of vaccination doing stuff for years, and until covid they were a trusted source in that field. but those who didnt have a pro vaccine opinion were removed from public discourse.
 
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Victronix

Senior Member
Messages
418
Location
California
"also research is manipulated so easily that normal people cannot understand it, we cannot take studys and just read the conclussion part. those studies need to be checked by real independent scientists who can detect errors in study design and interpret the raw data."

"Independent scientists"

For the latest research on COVID, vaccines, new viruses, etc., I generally look to cardiologist Dr. Peter McCullough, who was one of the most widely published cardiology researchers before COVID, then lost his university job because of speaking out on the vaccines. He does an excellent job of breaking down the research findings and also communicating the details of what he is seeing clinically in the patient populations that he and others are treating. He's testified at hearings all over the world, primarily on thrombosis, myo- and pericarditis from the shots and why they need to be stopped.

If you've never seen or heard of him I recommend this video clip - https://rumble.com/v2tpvxo-dr.-mccu...re-causing-the-largest-blood-clots-weve-.html

https://petermcculloughmd.substack.com/
https://twitter.com/P_McCulloughMD
https://rumble.com/c/PeterMcCulloughMD

One of the best original vaccine advocates who gradually realized what was going on at the FDA and CDC, changed his views, is Dr. Vinay Prasad at UCSF. His videos are excellent and he has kept his job.

https://www.youtube.com/@vprasadmdmph
https://twitter.com/VPrasadMDMPH

Lastly is Dr. John Campbell. His goal is teaching people what is going on in the research he reviews and takes it all step by step. He was another person who advocated for vaccines, until he started to see the actual data that Pfizer was forced to release by a judge, and had a shocking turn around.
https://www.youtube.com/@Campbellteaching/videos
 

hapl808

Senior Member
Messages
2,117
also exclude any "research" being funded by the manufacturer of the product and the government and related bodies which is funded by the manufacturer of the product.

Well, that's discrediting the organizations doing the research? (For some good reasons, but it's the same thing - you're excluding all government research, so what's left?)

then we need to compare arguments and counterarguments.

Absolutely agree with this. This is what I do - mostly reading papers when I have enough energy and dissecting them to the best of my ability. Like you said, you can't read conclusions but have to download supplementary data if it's present, look at conclusions not drawn, and so forth. It's exhausting and I hate it.

Doctors and public health leaders were supposed do this for us, and they failed completely. I don't want to check who manufactures or cleans the pitot tubes before getting on an airplane, and I trust the airline or manufacturer has figured this out for me.

One of the best original vaccine advocates who gradually realized what was going on at the FDA and CDC, changed his views, is Dr. Vinay Prasad at UCSF. His videos are excellent and he has kept his job.

Prasad is great when questioning shoddy vaccine research and the lack of data on long term harm from them, but then he also thinks Long Covid is BS and just a boogieman created by big bad public health to justify nonexistent mask mandates, and that most COVID deaths were probably lockdown deaths anyways.

Here's some Prasad about Long Covid.

  1. Fear-mongering about Long COVID in kids is not justified b/c they will all get it anyway, and many will suffer symptoms of long covid, but the two have nothing to do with each other.
  2. The reason people inaccurately covered long COVID is that they needed to have it— they needed it to be scary— to justify continued restrictions in young populations.
Or a Youtube: "Pre-existing Psychiatric Disorders and Long COVID -- Is there a link? What does it Mean?"

Or a Tweet ridiculing Long Covid: "Haha double long covid. Just like double IPA!"

(Just the first three Google searchers, so in all fairness maybe he thinks something different now.)

So my point is just that Campbell is great when questioning the efficacy of vaccines - rigorous and careful and questions our shoddy biased official numbers and methods. Then he'll look at another study showing excess deaths and say, "Well, we know it's not COVID anymore because official numbers are down, so what could it be?? Wink wink." Ummm, you just rightly questioned all those BS numbers, but now you're accepting them when you want to imply that all excess deaths are vaccine and none are COVID.

I've watched Campbell and Prasad and Weinstein and others. No such thing as independent scientists. Even with no financial motives, they will all fight to the death to protect their dogmatic views (Weinstein and Campbell less so early on, but both solidified). From Wessely to Prasad to Fauci to whoever.

So we all have to be vigilant, because no one is trustworthy on all topics.

My personal view - the vaccines are harming many people, and likely have helped many people. I have no idea what the long term risks or rewards will be from them, because the data collection is very biased. I think COVID is causing long term harm as well, as EBV has done or many other illnesses. What this will look like long term, I have no idea. Mild polio infections apparently led to PPS years later and we still have no idea why. I don't expect that to change any time soon.

Hopefully I didn't swing things too political. I think everyone is full of it, so I have no political affiliations when it comes to health. I want to be healthy, that's really all I care about. If I have to swear allegiance to Cthulu, I'm good with that.
 

Victronix

Senior Member
Messages
418
Location
California
When Campbell says the deaths are not due to COVID it's because they literally are labeled by the organizations putting out the data, non-COVID deaths. That's the definition of "excess deaths" in proximity to a global virus event, that they are not from COVID.

Prasad is highly focused on the quality of research being done. As someone who did a career in research, I respect that a lot, and there are few people who can easily see through research designs that are poor and expose why they cannot be relied on. He's a character, sure, and I haven't agreed with his views on the vaccines, but his take on Long COVID is specifically because the existing data on it are not showing consistency or validity. There are no officially recognized symptoms, and despite the HUGE amount of grant money that has been flowing into studies of it, they are not getting closer to an understanding of it. There is now also the confound of vaccine adverse events in the mix with Long COVID, but most researchers don't want to separate that factor out because they want to keep their careers, and that will make understanding it almost impossible, given the large number of AEs from vaccines that many don't recognize.

One way Long COVID could be researched is to only consider people who got it in 2020. Obviously, some people were literally disabled by the initial COVID variant. But there was also a spotlight put on that issue early on, research money, news stories, etc. So the question remains why it is such a mystery.
 

hapl808

Senior Member
Messages
2,117
One way Long COVID could be researched is to only consider people who got it in 2020. Obviously, some people were literally disabled by the initial COVID variant. But there was also a spotlight put on that issue early on, research money, news stories, etc. So the question remains why it is such a mystery.

Yep, a very difficult question - but I agree that would (or would've) been a sensible approach.

I prefer Campbell, even though I often disagree. Organizations can literally label anything they want - he questions the labels when they disagree with his point (reasonable), but then accepts it when it strengthens it.

How can someone know something is not COVID related? If a perfectly healthy person gets COVID, then dies from a sudden cardiac event six months later, it's very hard to know the root cause, no matter the label.

Some of Prasad's ridiculing of Long Covid doesn't endear me to him, any more than people on 'the other side' with their headlines of Pandemic of the Unvaccinated did. Even if someone is very sick and they say they have FND, I'm not going to ridicule that person even if I question FND as a diagnosis. Until we have definitive diagnoses, it's all guesswork.

As you said, so many confounders and no one wants to separate things, so we have no way of figuring out what's vaccine related, what's COVID related, what's related to other triggers and infections, and so forth. I'm very disappointed with where data collection and analysis ended up.