Medical gaslighting finally is being recognized by the mainstream press

[Lotus97]

Yes, I was myself wondering why so many of the above articles are written from a gender inequality perspective.

I would guess that if you are a patient with ME/CFS, you are going to be ignored and badly treated by the medical profession irrespective of whether you are male or female.

Of course, these so-called functional disorders which are often incorrectly assumed to be psychogenic usually affect women a lot more than they affect men (ME/CFS is 4 times more prevalent in women, and fibromyalgia 9 times); so in that sense they can be seen as a women's issue. But I think male or female, anyone with these diseases is equally ignored by their doctor.

Considering 80% of suicides are men and 93% of workplace deaths are men, it's very clear how significant 'male disposibility' is in society. My guess is that chronic illness among males is almost certainly UNDERDIAGNOSED.

Men are forced to be the primary "breadwinner" (ie main provider) for their family so they have enormous pressure to be healthy even when they have a chronic illness. That's why during economic downturns, the male suicide rate skyrockets compared to women.

I've heard several instances of men having their partners leave them after getting chronic illnesses.

This is a subject I feel very strongly about.

 

[Mel9]

The only medic out of 4 I have attended as a continuing patient that didn't believe me *was* a woman.

I too have had ‘gas lighting’ female and male doctors. The gender thing may be important in raising awareness though, as long as male me cfs patients are not forgotten.

 

[Tally]

I am sad to see this turn into yet another men vs women fight. Women are taken less seriously by medical profession. Their pain is taken less seriously. Their symptoms are more often psychologized. This is documented, statistical fact.

This does NOT mean that a man with ME/CFS is suffering any less than a woman. This does NOT mean that men have it easier or that their suffering is less important or recognized.

Considering 80% of suicides are men and 93% of workplace deaths are men, it's very clear how significant 'male disposibility' is in society.

Women attempt suicide more often but due to using more lethal methods men die of suicide more often.

Suicide is a sad and complex topic, but it seems making lethal weapons such as guns less accessible to men might be one of the many ways to fight this disparity.

In United Stated in 1970, an estimated 14,000 workers were killed on the job – by 2010, the workforce had doubled, but workplace deaths were down to about 4,500.

This is a subject I feel very strongly about.

It's wonderful to hear you want to help people and prevent needless death. Of course every life is precious but if you are going by the numbers those 4,500 annual workplace deaths pale in comparison to almost a million men who die every year of heart disease and cancer. Main causes of these deaths are obesity, smoking and lack of exercise so maybe you can point your activism that way.

If, on the other hand, workplace deaths are a particular topic of interest to you, I suggest you join a feminist organization. There you can help battle the prejudices towards "female" jobs such as being a cleaning lady or a nurse, and then men could work in those safer environments without feeling less manly.

I've heard several instances of men having their partners leave them after getting chronic illnesses.

You will be happy to find out that according to studies Divorce was more common when the wife got sick, and not the husband.

 

[Moof]

I don't want to turn it into male vs female either, but I agree that patients are most likely to be gaslighted for conditions that predominantly affect women. Men with them suffer just as much, however; "Man up" is possibly even more pernicious a message than "It's your hormones, dear". Women are just as capable as men of exhibiting this behaviour – they're trained in the same classrooms and operate within the same power structures.

I shared a flat with a medical student, and their professor taught them on Day 1 that our understanding of medicine has yet to reach 1%. They were advised never to forget that. I'm interested in the journey from that moment at the beginning of training, to the qualified clinician telling a patient their illness can't exist because it doesn't show up on tests.

I know that science has to be open to any explanation, otherwise it doesn't work – but that's not enough to explain gaslighting. I know researchers have to adopt theoretical positions and defend them strongly in order to get their funding, but that's not enough either. Hubris, sexism, vested interest and scientific dishonesty have to join the party first.

 

[sb4]

I think the real problem is biomarker/poor studies and not sexism.

If you are a psychologist and you genuinely believe the ME/CFS is psychological, then you need to come up with a reason why it affects 5x more women. Since men and women are different mentally and physically and women tend to be more emotional (not a good nor bad thing), then that is your obvious conclusion.

The problem is the medical institutions giving psychologists the time of day in a disease that isn't psychological. The way we change this position is not through bringing gender politics into it, but by pointing to the numerous studies showing physical abnormalities and getting the medical institutions to change there mind.

 

[Tally]

I think the real problem is biomarker/poor studies and not sexism.

Autism also does not have biomarker, and there is a debate about how to diagnose it, whether asperger's is same as autism etc. But it affects mainly men so it has proper funding, proper research, proper respect...

Not that medical community didn't try to blame boys' autism on female psychology: "refrigirator mothers" doctors started calling them, blaming mother's lack of warmth towards children as the cause of autism. These doctors went as far as to say that boys with autism were subjected to conditions similar to concentration camps by their mothers.

Of course these were blatant lies, and we know today that upbringing does not cause autism.

So even when an illness predominantly affects men, it's still because women are crazy.

Women are more affected by painful disorders such as migraines, endometriosis, fibromyalgia, yet in ERs men on average get more painkillers. Because men are objective about their pain, and women are, how did you put it, "more emotional". Not that being emotional is a bad thing, but you just can't believe an emotional person about their experience.

The way we change this position is not through bringing gender politics into it, but by pointing to the numerous studies showing physical abnormalities and getting the medical institutions to change there mind.

It's both.

We have had success in changing attitudes both by objective analysis of thousands of research papers and by talking openly about sexism and being loud about it on social media

 

[Moof]

So even when an illness predominantly affects men, it's still because women are crazy.

Women are more affected by painful disorders such as migraines, endometriosis, fibromyalgia, yet in ERs men on average get more painkillers. Because men are objective about their pain, and women are, how did you put it, "more emotional". Not that being emotional is a bad thing, but you just can't believe an emotional person about their experience.

This. ^

 

[sb4]

Autism also does not have biomarker, and there is a debate about how to diagnose it, whether asperger's is same as autism etc. But it affects mainly men so it has proper funding, proper research, proper respect...

It's a good point about autism but I don't think it's a great comparison. Somebody who was healthy then took to laying in bed all day could be seen as faking it. Having learning disorder's from being a kid is a lot less likely to be faked. I think this is more important that gender differences in this case.

So even when an illness predominantly affects men, it's still because women are crazy.

The mother thing is obviously now know to be BS but at one time it could have be a reasonable hypothesis to test. Since women are statistically the ones who mostly care for kids, it's not unreasonable to look if something is going wrong with that care, without being anti women or having discrimination against women.

Women are more affected by painful disorders such as migraines, endometriosis, fibromyalgia, yet in ERs men on average get more painkillers. Because men are objective about their pain, and women are, how did you put it, "more emotional". Not that being emotional is a bad thing, but you just can't believe an emotional person about their experience

That's interesting and I did not know that. Not sure why your quoting "more emotional" as this implies you do not think this is the case.

We have had success in changing attitudes both by objective analysis of thousands of research papers and by talking openly about sexism and being loud about it on social media

If it advances knowledge of the disease that is good in it's own right, but assigning blame incorrectly isn't good IMO. If I had no knowledge of this disease other than that mainstream docs say it's in patients heads and heard it was being taken up by the feminist movement it would lead me to presume the mainstream is more right, not less.

 

[JaimeS]

'Gaslighting' ?
The what ?
Well it's the first time I've heard that.
Going to take a punt and say it's another American 're-application'.

Gaslighting has an interesting history. The term isn't new, though it is American: it originates from a film from the 1930s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting

In the UK these days, 52% of GPs are female. It would be interesting to see if there are any studies looking at whether female GPs treat patients with functional disorders any better than their male colleagues.

Not only do they not treat them any better, but they use the same misogynistic framing to discuss the woman's disease. This is mentioned in one of those articles you've linked; I'm sorry but it's escaped my mind which. Women can be as misogynistic as men, attributing feminine pain and symptoms to the imagination, the emotions, or my favorite: fibromyalgia being "an overreaction to the ordinary sensations of life".

We're all raised in the same bias: we're swimming in it.

You'd think women would be more sympathetic, but that's not the way it goes. If anything, I think it goes the other way: there's a need to constantly demonstrate they're different from these hysterical women.

It cuts both ways: my stepfather got a slap on the back and a "big, strong man like you... what could be wrong?" from my most misogynistic doctor.

What was wrong?

Colon cancer.

But his manliness should have warded that off.

 

[E.man]

As a male pw ME I was well ignored by the female hospital triage.

Yeah. It's all around . We're not being taken seriously but we're seriously suffering.