I need to sleep! Help !!!!!

[prioris]

@prioris - None of us know what is a safe dose of a substance for another person, so please give an authoritative source for your statement as we don't want to encourage anyone to take a dose of a medication that might not be appropriate or safe for them - thanks!

lithium orotate is not a medication. it is a food supplement just like magnesium orotate.

there is no test that measures minerals in the tissues available.
at the end of the day, it is trial and error.

there is a vast amount of empirical study on toxicity of lithium carbonate.
it would take absolutely massive dosage of lithium orotate to get up to the levels of the carbonate

 

[L'engle]

I now think the benadryl doesn't actually help me sleep. It does curb my anxiety when I'm awake too long though. The good news is that I got my good sleep naturally. The bad news it it can be difficult to create the same conditions each night.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

Benadryl just made me groggy (couldn't think clearly) but did not make me sleepy or help my quality of sleep. Useless stuff for me.

@Wishful
Ditto, absolute shite for sleep. Unisom tho, was great.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

there is a vast amount of empirical study on toxicity of lithium carbonate.

@prioris
Citations please on your statements re toxicity of lithium orotate.

 

[prioris]

@prioris
Citations please on your statements re toxicity of lithium orotate.

You can do the math for lithium orotate ... 4.6mg x 120 x 12 x 30
then do the math for standard dosage of lithium carbonate

 

[prioris]

Yip ... There is no test in existence that can determine mineral deficiency of an organ or tissue in the body

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

You can do the math for lithium orotate ... 4.6mg x 120 x 12 x 30
then do the math for standard dosage of lithium carbonate

You're comparing apples and oranges. The dosage of one has nothing to do with the other.

Again, I'm asking you for citations that support your dangerous assertions re lithium orotate toxicity.

Yip ... There is no test in existence that can determine mineral deficiency of an organ or tissue in the body
Knowing how safety conscience you are, I assume you take no mineral supplements

Arguments ad hominem and sarcasm are not valid responses.

Please post citations for your assertions regarding lithium orotate toxicity.

 

[Mary]

lithium orotate is not a medication.

You're right, that was a misstatement. I'd still like to see your citation where you arrived at the conclusion that taking 6624 mg. of lithium orotate a day is safe.

I'm assuming, perhaps incorrectly, that you are equating lithium carbonate with lithium orotate in terms of dosing. The Mayo Clinic says for acute mania the maximum dose of lithium carbonate is 1800 mg. a day (600 mg. 3 x a day (https://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/lithium-oral-route/proper-use/drg-20064603)

And you're saying that 6624 mg. of lithium orotate a day is safe, which is more than 3 times what the Mayo Clinic says is safe for lithium carbonate.

Again, can you please give the citation(s) which have allowed you to determine that 6624 mg. of lithium orotate a day is non-toxic. And, if lithium orotate and lithium carbonate are not equivalent in terms of dosing, can you please provide citations for this as well, and how you determined that 6624 mg. of lithium orotate is non-toxic.

I'm concerned because you are saying that a very high dose of a supplement is safe, when it's potentially quite dangerous, and I would hate to see anyone follow your recommendations here without solid data to back it up.

 

[prioris]

You're right, that was a misstatement. I'd still like to see your citation where you arrived at the conclusion that taking 6624 mg. of lithium orotate a day is safe.

I'm assuming, perhaps incorrectly, that you are equating lithium carbonate with lithium orotate in terms of dosing. The Mayo Clinic says for acute mania the maximum dose of lithium carbonate is 1800 mg. a day (600 mg. 3 x a day (https://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/lithium-oral-route/proper-use/drg-20064603)

And you're saying that 6624 mg. of lithium orotate a day is safe, which is more than 3 times what the Mayo Clinic says is safe for lithium carbonate.

Again, can you please give the citation(s) which have allowed you to determine that 6624 mg. of lithium orotate a day is non-toxic. And, if lithium orotate and lithium carbonate are not equivalent in terms of dosing, can you please provide citations for this as well, and how you determined that 6624 mg. of lithium orotate is non-toxic.

I'm concerned because you are saying that a very high dose of a supplement is safe, when it's potentially quite dangerous, and I would hate to see anyone follow your recommendations here without solid data to back it up.

You misread and misunderstood it. I never said that taking 6624mg of lithium orotate is safe either. I just wanted to point out the massive doses of lithium carbonate given to manics etc vs minuscule amount normally give for lithium orotate

 

[taniaaust1]

Hi, @L'engle but Unisom works extremely well at 1/4 dose (6.25 mg) .... have tried to cut it to 1/8th just to see if it works, but it shatters into tiny unmeasurable pieces, so I couldn't figure out how many mgs I was taking..

yep, that is what happens when one tries to get a pill into 8 pieces, they crumble into various sized bits. You may end up with 10 pieces instead and end up deciding to take the 2 smallest pieces of the 10 to count as a piece. So the amounts taken are not exactly the same but the best we can do. It probably though does not matter much when taking such small amounts that one tiny piece is a little bigger than another tiny piece

 

[taniaaust1]

Off topic from the thread but important for anyone thinking of taking lithium orotate:

https://www.superfoodly.com/lithium-orotate/

Its very interesting to see that only two human studies have ever been done on this. For myself taking it does not get my lithium deficiency level up (my body does not have anywhere near normal levels of that trace mineral). My body has nil response to lithium orotate when taken

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

@taniaaust1
Thank you so much for the article link re lithium, great read and informative, good of you to post it.

Oooppps .... correction, thank you @L'engle for that extremely interesting and informative article, and thank you @taniaaust1 for reposting it in your comment, which reminded me that I hadn't checked it out yet ..... Sorry for the initial error..... don't seem to be firing on all cylinders today .....

 

[prioris]

Its very interesting to see that only two human studies have ever been done on this. For myself taking it does not get my lithium deficiency level up (my body does not have anywhere near normal levels of that trace mineral). My body has nil response to lithium orotate when taken

tania ... what did you use to determine your lithium levels in your body

since it had no affect, i would say chances are that your lithium levels are ok

 

[Mary]

You misread and misunderstood it. I never said that taking 6624mg of lithium orotate is safe either. I just wanted to point out the massive doses of lithium carbonate given to manics etc vs minuscule amount normally give for lithium orotate

Hi @prioris - okay, since I misunderstood you, I'm sure there are many others who did too - you had said that one would have to take 6624 mg. of lithium orotate a day for 30 days to reach a toxic dose. I didn't realize you were speaking hyperbolically, or just exaggerating in order to make your point about the contrast between the very small doses of lithium orotate generally taken vs. high doses prescribed by doctors for bipolar disorders.

As you know, most of us do not have knowledgeable or effective medical care - we are literally on our own and as you say,

there is no way to test for tissue mineral deficiencies so it's all about trial and error

Members here rely a lot on others' experiences and knowledge and very often use themselves as guinea pigs (I've done it many times). So I'm still concerned that your statement here might be misinterpreted and lead some to take excessive and potentially very harmful doses of lithium orotate. It's not apparent that you were not speaking literally.

to get the official toxic dose of lithium via lithium orotate ...
1 bottle = 120 4.6mg tablets in bottle
you'd have to take 12 bottles a day for an entire month

It would be very good and helpful to members if you would edit that post to indicate that you were not speaking literally and were exaggerating for effect, or perhaps even delete that statement to avoid misunderstanding. Our words have a lot of power! Thank you.

 

[jesse's mom]

I am just amazed at how much my weighted blanket is helping me sleep. Now don't get me wrong, I still suffer from insomnia. I have had my weighted blanket for about three months and I keep a journal in it I track every bite of food, every supplement, every medication. I log my sleep and I do usually have a few hours of sleep early in the night, then I am up from 2-4 am then take a nap.

The Weighted blanket I read about in PatJ's blog on sleeping better. If you are having trouble sleeping it is the most non drug wonderfulness!

Interesting that for me 1 benadryl will help me sleep, but taking two within 12 hours... like if I am having bad allergy attacks.. 2 benadryl and I am wired for sound!

Here is to all of us sleeping better in the New Year!

 

[Mary]

I am just amazed at how much my weighted blanket is helping me sleep.

That is so good to hear! My sister bought one of those a few months ago, she has insomnia problems too though she doesn't have ME/CFS, and I think she likes it a lot. Anyways, I'm going to visit her in about 4 weeks and I'll get a chance to see what it's like.

Here is to all of us sleeping better in the New Year!

Amen!

 

[taniaaust1]

Yip ... There is no test in existence that can determine mineral deficiency of an organ or tissue in the body

Hair tests may give a good idea when it comes to deficiencies.. not so the case though when it comes to things in excess as the hair "can" absorb things from our environment.

It was through hair testing that I found out my body was deficient in molybdenum.. and hence then supplemented with it. Fixing that deficiency caused my brain to improve quite a bit in working memory skills. I had not been able to do maths in my head for years but after only 3-5 days of supplementation, I could do this.

 

[prioris]

Hair tests may give a good idea when it comes to deficiencies.. not so the case though when it comes to things in excess as the hair "can" absorb things from our environment.

It was through hair testing that I found out my body was deficient in molybdenum.. and hence then supplemented with it. Fixing that deficiency caused my brain to improve quite a bit in working memory skills. I had not been able to do maths in my head for years but after only 3-5 days of supplementation, I could do this.

that's pretty much it

 

[L'engle]

Hey guys, I'm doing the math on how I have to manage my diet and realize it may not actually be possible for a couple of days to get more than a minimum bit of sleep. It should iron out after that but what a rocky road to traverse! Sorry to bother you all again but I am once again keyed up and sort of panicking at night. I'm mostly just bouncing ideas out and trying to clear my head.

It's been three days since I had one of those terrible stretches with more than 24 hours awake, but the last 3 days I've had 5, 3.5, and 2ish hours of sleep. See where the pattern's going? The trouble is the amount of calcium I need to push down the magnesium has gotten ahead of where it should be because I drank too much milk one day. Yesterday I ended up missing most of my sleep window because the last half cup of milk I drank pushed me into high calcium and it took several hours to go back down, hence the 2 hour sleep. So I have to reign it back in today, meaning I may miss my sleep window altogether before the magnesium builds up again.

Thinking of pulling the sleep med lever, but:
Looking at websites it seems like the form of unisom available in canada is not the doxylamine succinate form but the same compound that's in benadryl (which does nothing). This is maybe a good thing, I don't know. Getting to a doctor to get a prescription takes forever in my small town with its doctor shortage. I guess I should just try to weather the next couple of days and hope I get a couple hours of sleep at least. Blech.

Edit: I was able to order a generic of the unisom type product with the doxylamine succinate. It will take 4 days to arrive so I guess that gives me a chance to figure out if I really am desperate enough to take it at that point.

 

[jesse's mom]

I hate that you are not sleeping again! That the worst!