How to deal with crashing after doing lightning process, Mickel therapy etc?

[hapl808]

@Cfs2019...............I actually find it very interesting that the brief relief of mindset also gave you relief of physical symptoms even if it was a short period of time. This is very telling to me.

That makes sense to me. Feeling like we're not crazy is itself a relief. People often feel that with any diagnosis, too - I've talked to patients so relieved at a lyme diagnosis or CIRS or whatever. Then you talk to them weeks or months later, and they're optimistically pushing through some new treatment that hasn't relieved any of their real underlying physical issues.

As I mentioned above - the pseudoscience is explaining real phenomena. I do think our nervous system is stuck in fight or flight, but I don't think it's fixable with mental exercises. We can calm our thinking which doesn't then worsen the problem, but it also doesn't fix the problem.

Lots of things give me relief for an hour or two. I can pretty much do it at will - over many years I learned to live on adrenaline when necessary. Back in my mild days, I could 'turn it on' for a full day, but it always led to a crash. Three days of work in a row were undoable - I always 'came down with something'.

Now, I can jump on a 20 minute phone call with lots of energy, and I feel great for at least 15 of those minutes. It makes me feel slightly crazy, because I start thinking, "How could this make me crash if I feel this good?" Then I get off the phone and feel slightly crappy, then the next day awful, and the following day even worse. It happens 100% of the time now, yet I'm slightly surprised every time.

 

[Tammy]

That makes sense to me. Feeling like we're not crazy is itself a relief. P

Yes, it's a relief for sure. So what is your theory on how that sense of relief led to temporary relief of physical symptoms? (Just to be clear I'm not inferring that there isn't a physical root cause of this disease.)

 

[Judee]

Hopefully they're okay, I've not kept it that neat and tidy, so apologies for that, I was gonna type it up but it would have took me ages.

If I'm being honest I do have all those thought patterns and I was doing quite well for a short time but Its almost like I added another layer of stress and I crashed and this seemed to offend the practitioners who shut down on me, I tried to reach out to the owner and explain but it was difficult

No, you did a good job and made the wiser choice not to try to type all that.

So what is your theory on how that sense of relief led to temporary relief of physical symptoms?

Endorphins or adrenaline? Often it's very hard for me to get out to do an errand but when I come back from one for a while I actually feel kinda good until I PEM crash and then usually feel much worse than if I hadn't tried the errand at all.

I think that happens to a lot of us.

 

[Cfs2019]

@Cfs2019...............I actually find it very interesting that the brief relief of mindset also gave you relief of physical symptoms even if it was a short period of time. This is very telling to me.

It felt a bit like a switch in your brain being turned off, it's like my brain slowed down a bit and I did think if I could stop my brain/hypothalamus being overactive then that'd be enough for me to say I'm cured but it didn't stay that way, maybe some people have been able to keep it at that level and stay cured, but that's not something I'd know about, it felt almost impossible for me personally to switch it off and the more I did the worse it got, so I'm a bit unsure after that

 

[Tammy]

Endorphins or adrenaline? Often it's very hard for me to get out to do an errand but when I come back from one for a while I actually feel kinda good until I PEM crash and then usually feel much worse than if I hadn't tried the errand at all.

I think that happens to a lot of us.

Yes, that is a situation that can happen but that's not what I'm eluding to. You're describing a situation where the physical can affect the physical. I'm referring to the mental affecting the physical. As Cfs2019 mentioned, he said it felt a bit like a switch in the brain being turned off. I believe because of the change in his mindset at that moment his brain wasn't perceiving threats as before and his physical responded to his new mindset if even for a brief moment of time. I've heard other people mention this phenomenon and with practice they are able to retrain the brain in the way it perceives danger signals. I don't know if I'm even describing the process in the right way. Believe me this isn't something I would have even entertained as being something that could help but it seems like I keep being directed in one way or another to look into it. For the past several months I've been listening to people who have practiced Dan Neuferr's ANS rewiring and other modalities along the same lines. I think there is something to it. I think anything that can help to calm the ANS might be of some help. I do believe a wholistic approach is desirable. Working on both physical and mindset.

 

[LINE]

Are you doing any supplement to calm the nervous/endocrine system?

 

[Cfs2019]

Are you doing any supplement to calm the nervous/endocrine system?

I'm not sure if that's for me or not, but no I'm not taking any supplements.

The only thing I do is some techniques to calm to nervous system, but I've found it's not enough for me to switch off the stress response sadly.
I think these therapies can make people a lot worse if they go back into normal life, like they encourage but the symptoms haven't been dealt with, then you're gonna go downhill fast and the therapists don't like any responsibility so it can be confusing

 

[LINE]

I'm not sure if that's for me or not, but no I'm not taking any supplements.

The only thing I do is some techniques to calm to nervous system, but I've found it's not enough for me to switch off the stress response sadly.
I think these therapies can make people a lot worse if they go back into normal life, like they encourage but the symptoms haven't been dealt with, then you're gonna go downhill fast and the therapists don't like any responsibility so it can be confusing

Nutrients play a key role in modulating several systems such as neurological, immune etc.

 

[Cfs2019]

that would crash me, from cognitive exertion.


that sound useful. We have literally overheated brains, and that contributes to alot of brain chatter in my expert opinion.

Curious what their technique for that one is.

If we have overheated brains, and i do believe that, what's the difference with cfs and say autism, isn't that pretty much the same thing?

SUrely if you switch off the overactive hypothalamus, in an autistic person then there symptoms are gonna go or least drop a lot

 

[Rufous McKinney]

what's the difference with cfs and say autism, isn't that pretty much the same thing?

I don't know. I personally feel internally changed, and in my case, I function more like an autistic type person here lately.

I notice, for instance, how very staggeringly ILL I feel internally, if I attempt to FOCUS attention on somebody else. And my eyes are real sick so focusing is also involved in this seeing.

 

[Husband of]

I would say, if you want to be doing these therapies, then just make sure the thoughts you are choosing to replace the so called negative thoughts are not thoughts that result in you using more energy.

 

[Mary]

@Cfs2019 - lightning process etc. are not proven treatments for ME/CFS. I tried Ashok Gupta's protocol back in 2007 and all it did was make me crash. If something makes you crash, you need to stop doing it and learn to pace yourself - what you can safely do without crashing. These practitioners want to have it both ways - saying they can cure you, and if it doesn't work, it's your fault for not trying hard enough or not doing it "properly". It's a win-win for them and a lose-lose for us. The ones who blame you are just demonstrating their ignorance and possibly bad faith.

I've seen anecdotal reports by some people who say lightning process etc. DID help them with ME/CFS but they are way outnumbered by those who either were not helped or were actually harmed by it. So I think it's fine to give these things a try - you never know - but if you react badly, don't blame yourself, and most importantly, listen to your body. This is a little ironic because I remember I was told by Gupta to NOT listen to my body, to ignore signals that I was overdoing it, etc., which led directly to a crash. We don't pay attention to our bodies because we're fixated on them for God knows what reasons, but, rather, because if we don't pay attention, we get into trouble pretty quickly. I don't know who came up with the insane theory that paying attention to pain and exhaustion CAUSED pain and exhaustion - i wish so badly they could experience what we do, even if just for a day, though preferably for a few months at least.

I do do things to calm my nervous system - one of the most effective is the pose described in this post. It really is very calming. Originally I was told to do it for 20 minutes a day (as I recall) but I'm now doing 40 - 45 minutes if I can manage it. It also helps with sleep at night but don't do at night because it can be stimulating then. I don't do it after 4:00 p.m. I later added to the thread that I thought it was stimulating my thyroid but I'm not sure about that now. I do take desiccated thyroid so if I start getting hyperthyroid, I'll trying cutting my medication instead of stopping the pose.

 

[LINE]

@Cfs2019 -

I do do things to calm my nervous system - one of the most effective is the pose described in this post. It really is very calming. Originally I was told to do it for 20 minutes a day (as I recall) but I'm now doing 40 - 45 minutes if I can manage it. It also helps with sleep at night but don't do at night because it can be stimulating then. I don't do it after 4:00 p.m. I later added to the thread that I thought it was stimulating my thyroid but I'm not sure about that now. I do take desiccated thyroid so if I start getting hyperthyroid, I'll trying cutting my medication instead of stopping the pose.

I read the post on the Pose - would it be simple enough to say this is about leg elevation? Or is that too simplistic?

 

[Mary]

I read the post on the Pose - would it be simple enough to say this is about leg elevation? Or is that too simplistic?

@LINE - i’m afraid I don’t know the answer to that. A naturopath told me about this.(as described in the other thread.) and someone. mentioned that it was I think a yoga pose or similar to one. actually someone I know lays on the floor and just puts their legs up against the wall without a chair in between. They do this because of problems they have with their gut and this helps gets things back in place.

Actually, I don’t think it’s just leg elevation. You could lay on your back and put a pillow under your legs and elevate them, but I don’t think it would do the same thing. About my thyroid, my chiropractor told me that the pose is flooding my thyroid with blood and that that is very helpful to the thyroid

The only thing I know for sure is that it is very calming, and if I do it daily (as much as possible), it helps noticeably with sleep, particularly going back to sleep in the middle of the night.

 

[LINE]

@Mary Thanks for the explanation. I sort of ask since I have an elevation pillow in bed and find that quite helpful.

 

[Mary]

@Mary Thanks for the explanation. I sort of ask since I have an elevation pillow in bed and find that quite helpful.

@LINE - what sort of elevation pillow is it? Does it just elevate your legs? And, how is it helpful for you? What does it do for you?

For all I know it’s quite possible that elevating our legs is a good thing! One of my sisters got me using an ottoman or otherwise elevating my legs while watching TV and it seems to be a good thing though I’m not quite sure why. I think it has to do with our autonomic nervous system.

But I do think this pose does something a bit more than just having one’s legs elevated, though I don’t know for sure!

 

[LINE]

Similar to this: Keeps me relaxed, perhaps it relaxes the cardio system