Flat emotion— fatigue or depression

[Hope_eternal]

I’m concerned. It’s so hard as a caretaker to gauge what is going on. My son has just not been the same since the end of Dec when we took an out of town doctor trip.,He’s been so much more fatigued and his mood is very flat. No emotion, won’t look me in the eye. I ask him regularly if he’s feeling down, depressed, irritated etc but he responds no (by a slow barely noticeable head shake). I ask him if his flat expressionless demeanor is due to fatigue and he shrugs a barely noticeable shoulder shrug. This has been going on for months to varying degrees. He remains in the bed for 23 1/2 hrs a day. Nothing we have tried seems to make things better for him. Before December we would get glimmers of his old self where he’d engage in conversation and laugh with us at least a couple times a month. He hasn’t done that in 4 months., Can anyone shed some insight as to what may be going on? Maybe this is completely normal in chronic fatigue sufferers. I can imagine lack of energy would make your emotions flat. It’s so hard to see him like this. I hope he’s ok mentally. He says he is but he sure doesn’t look like it. 😭

 

[Faith2007]

I'm an ME/CFS patient somewhere between level 2.5 and 3 depending on the day. It does take more energy to show emotions, however my emotions go flat sometimes and it isn't necessarily related to fatigue. It's not just an overnight thing, either. I also have mood swings, though those have gotten better with medication and supplements.

ME/CFS patients can have trouble with serotonin, among other things.

When my condition worsens, so does my mood, which your son's trip could have done, especially if the doctor(s) you are seeing aren't able to help you at all and you decline. I have a team of doctors I use, and added another when that happened to me. No options for improvement can directly affect hope.

December can be a more upbeat month because of Christmas, if your family celebrates, but winter in general can be a more difficult time of year for me. You don't have the sunshine, can't open windows and see the green, can't sit outside, etc. My counselor has me use light therapy in the mornings during winter.

Another thing with this illness is that life can really just start to feel the same with limited opportunities. Is there a way you can create something special for him, whether it's a special occasion or activity? Just looking forward to something can help with mood.

Best wishes.

 

[Judee]

I can imagine lack of energy would make your emotions flat.

That.

Sometimes I don't have the energy to "plug" into what is going on around me.

 

[wabi-sabi]

This is a good severity scale if you haven't seen it already:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1777771144999035132

 

[Hip]

Can anyone shed some insight as to what may be going on? Maybe this is completely normal in chronic fatigue sufferers. I can imagine lack of energy would make your emotions flat.

The Canadian consensus criteria for ME/CFS (fuller version here) list several emotional symptoms often appear with this illness:

• Emotional flattening
• Hypersensitivity to emotional overload
• Emotional lability (pseudobulbar affect) = unstable or exaggerated emotion
• Emotional unpredictability, emotional disability, emotional disturbances

I find the blunted emotions of ME/CFS tend to distance me from human activity, because so much of human life revolves around emotions.

I also suffered from a symptom found in schizophrenia called social withdrawal, where you find you just don't want to engage in social interaction, or deal with people. Once I started taking very low doses of the antipsychotic amisulpride (12.5 mg daily), I found my social withdrawal much improved (but my emotions remained weakened and blunted).

 

[Hope_eternal]

It does take more energy to show emotions, however my emotions go flat sometimes and it isn't necessarily related to fatigue. It's not just an overnight thing, either. I also have mood swings, though those have gotten better with medication and supplements.

It’s quite eye opening to see how greatly this affects every aspect of one’s life. Things I take for granted, Like the everyday functions that my body performs with no thought at all in reality takes an enormous amount of energy. I’m glad to hear you have had improvements with medication and supplements. We have tried numerous medications and supplements with little to no changes unfortunately but we will keep the search going. I know it can take some time to find things that work for each individual.

Another thing with this illness is that life can really just start to feel the same with limited opportunities. Is there a way you can create something special for him, whether it's a special occasion or activity? Just looking forward to something can help with mood.

Yes I agree. The illness strips you of so much We have tried to think up special things he may look forward to be when we suggest them he doesn’t want to engage. All he seems to want to do is be on his laptop to varying degrees as energy permits. My feeling is he has to limit human contact right now. Probably the reason he doesn’t make eye contact and his words are barely audible :/

I appreciate your note. Wishing you much healing on your journey.

 

[Hope_eternal]

That.

Sometimes I don't have the energy to "plug" into what is going on around me.

This must be what he is experiencing. Thank you for your input. As much as I don’t like to see him suffering it helps to know what he’s experiencing is common with other ME sufferers.

 

[Hope_eternal]

This is a good severity scale if you haven't seen it already:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1777771144999035132

Thank you! It’s hard to see the chart on my phone but I’ll check it out once I log into my pc. I appreciate your sharing this with me,

 

[Hope_eternal]

I find the blunted emotions of ME/CFS tend to distance me from human activity, because so much of human life revolves around emotions.

This makes sense. I’m a natural introvert and social outings wipe me out. I can see how this would affect someone suffering with ME.

I also suffered from a symptom found in schizophrenia called social withdrawal, where you find you just don't want to engage in social interaction, or deal with people. Once I started taking very low doses of the antipsychotic amisulpride (12.5 mg daily), I found my social withdrawal much improved (but my emotions remained weakened and blunted).

He definitely has been socially w/drawn since the start of this. You’ve given me something to think about. I’ve hear some people getting some relief from certain ADHD drugs and other medications prescribed by psychiatrist. I was going to look further into that this weekend.

Thank you for your note and sharing your experience. Best wishes on your healing journey.

 

[ilivewithcfs]

I'm not as severe as your son, yet I feel very flat emotionally, I'm also anhedonic. It's not unusual, CFS affects the brain in many ways.
Best wishes to your son.

 

[Hope_eternal]

I'm not as severe as your son, yet I feel very flat emotionally, I'm also anhedonic. It's not unusual, CFS affects the brain in many ways.
Best wishes to your son.

I’m sorry you experience this as well. I had never heard of anhedonic before. I had to look it up. That sounds like a difficult one to contend with as well. I just am so astonished at how much this illness takes away. Thank you for sharing your experience with me.

 

[maddietod]

Just chiming in with a 'me too.' I'm close with my grown kids, and they're kind and funny and fun and gentle with me. Even so, I don't want to see them very often, and I feel like I'm pretending to care about what's going on for them.

It sounds like your son has chosen to spend his limited energy on computer time. I imagine that this is very hard for you, as his caretaker - lots of work and really no positive feedback or engagement. He could cut down on screen time, and maybe would communicate with you more. Or maybe not. And if the computer is his lifeline into the world, he's unlikely to slow down with it.

I'm sorry it's all so hard right now.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

All he seems to want to do is be on his laptop to varying degrees as energy permits. My feeling is he has to limit human contact right now.

I feel very much this way, lately. Interactions are profoundly draining.

I"m living with my precious grandaughters. I love them SO MUCH. Just being near the toddler, who emits constant love and joy and she beams and smiles: its so wonderful.

And I feel like crap. I am drained. exhausted. spent. I just want to lie down and do NOTHING, other than tiny engagements with the laptop.

I want to call my friend but I cannot fathom calling my friend. And another friend asks me to call, and I put it off for weeks.

I have to respond to a text. I regret sending the first text (I had to, a logistics thing). Now I have to interact via text with my friend? So it's a week later? And I cannot return a text?

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Even so, I don't want to see them very often, and I feel like I'm pretending to care about what's going on for them.

OH GOSH.........I feel this so often, also.

At ten PM last Saturday, I was so sad I would NOT be attending the Birthday Party at the Park with the Pool the next day.

But at 9 am the next day, I had NO issue with not attending this party. Why should I go? I cannot even sit in the chairs, provided. Let alone be out in that much sunlight. Let alone visit with other people. And smile alto at children.

I would be the rain on the parade.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

some relief from certain ADHD drugs

concentrating and paying attention are extremely costly undertakings for us.

I feel VERY ADHD. Recently, I have somewhat even lost my ability to decide some Netflix thing is interesting and I might enjoy it.

The lap top is far less demanding. We can just engage and then disengage, moment to moment.

 

[Hope_eternal]

Just chiming in with a 'me too.' I'm close with my grown kids, and they're kind and funny and fun and gentle with me. Even so, I don't want to see them very often, and I feel like I'm pretending to care about what's going on for them.

It sounds like your son has chosen to spend his limited energy on computer time. I imagine that this is very hard for you, as his caretaker - lots of work and really no positive feedback or engagement. He could cut down on screen time, and maybe would communicate with you more. Or maybe not. And if the computer is his lifeline into the world, he's unlikely to slow down with it.

I'm sorry it's all so hard right now.

Thank you for your note. It sounds like you really have a nice support system and a very loving family. That’s wonderful. I can understand you have to pick and choose what you care about. And right now that is your health. That must be hard for you because you surely love your family.

Yes, you’re right about the computer. We’ve had many talks about it, but he does not want to give that up. There are times when he has to take his headphones off or take breaks for some rest. But he does not wanna let that computer go for anything.

I think the hardest thing for me as a caretaker is seeing everything stripped from him, Everything he was is now gone. He was so fun and witty. He excelled at school and loved sports and socializing. All that’s gone. He doesn’t even look the same. The illness has really done a number on him. It breaks my heart.

Thank you so much for your kind note. I have hope things will get better. Unfortunately, just not as quickly as I’d like them to be. I won’t give up on him.

Wishing you much healing on your journey.

 

[Hope_eternal]

I feel very much this way, lately. Interactions are profoundly draining.

I"m living with my precious grandaughters. I love them SO MUCH. Just being near the toddler, who emits constant love and joy and she beams and smiles: its so wonderful.

And I feel like crap. I am drained. exhausted. spent. I just want to lie down and do NOTHING, other than tiny engagements with the laptop.

I want to call my friend but I cannot fathom calling my friend. And another friend asks me to call, and I put it off for weeks.

I have to respond to a text. I regret sending the first text (I had to, a logistics thing). Now I have to interact via text with my friend? So it's a week later? And I cannot return a text?

I think give yourself grace. Your friends will understand your limitations.

Goodness, being around toddlers, as amazing and sweet as they are, can be very draining. Could understand why you would need some quiet time and rest.

I hope you’re finding time for self-care. Wishing you much healing and strength.

 

[hapl808]

This makes sense. I’m a natural introvert and social outings wipe me out. I can see how this would affect someone suffering with ME.

I'm a natural extrovert, and it took me so many years (and still now) to understand my constant crashes, and weird lack of enthusiasm when I'm a very enthusiastic person.

I think a lot of my life has been subconscious energy management. Unless something promised to be perfect, I would lack enthusiasm - because now I realize how much energy it takes. Since I got worse, it's more obvious. I can allow myself to be 'a little' enthusiastic on a thirty minute phone call, but I know the next 1-2 days will probably have significantly worsened symptoms if I do so.

It sounds like your son is much worse (continuous crash), so even thinking is tiring. I'm more moderate (can still sit up most of the day) but alone. Sometimes when I talk to my mother on the phone and she asks what caused a crash (if she hasn't talked to me for a few days) it's frustrating because I have no idea and even thinking about it is tiring.

Anyways, good luck. You're doing more than 99% of families do, and some people do make remarkable baseline improvements, even if their illness doesn't go into remission. Even though my baseline has mostly declined over the years - I started as more 'mild' (still debilitating) and pushed myself through constant weekly crashes for decades.

 

[Lena9701]

I'm so sorry you and your son are going through this. I get a set of symptoms sometimes that sounds somewhat similar to what you describe which I think of as the autism-like symptoms. I feel withdrawn and kind of flat but in an irritable, agitated way, and eye contact becomes both undesirable and really, really difficult. I have to force myself to reply at all when anyone says something to me, and even then the best I can manage is short, like shrug, yes, no. I think my carer gets the message very clearly that I am just willing her out of the room and to not speak to me, even when it's about something essential and I know I need to say something for my own basic good. Sensitivity to sounds goes way up too. Unfortunately I haven't been able to figure out what's causing these symptoms, the last time they got really bad was after a virus, possibly mild COVID, before that it was after the COVID vaccine. For me this is completely separate from periods where my baseline is lower or where I'm in a crash from PEM. I wish I had something more helpful to add

 

[Hope_eternal]

I'm so sorry you and your son are going through this. I get a set of symptoms sometimes that sounds somewhat similar to what you describe which I think of as the autism-like symptoms. I feel withdrawn and kind of flat but in an irritable, agitated way, and eye contact becomes both undesirable and really, really difficult. I have to force myself to reply at all when anyone says something to me, and even then the best I can manage is short, like shrug, yes, no. I think my carer gets the message very clearly that I am just willing her out of the room and to not speak to me, even when it's about something essential and I know I need to say something for my own basic good. Sensitivity to sounds goes way up too. Unfortunately I haven't been able to figure out what's causing these symptoms, the last time they got really bad was after a virus, possibly mild COVID, before that it was after the COVID vaccine. For me this is completely separate from periods where my baseline is lower or where I'm in a crash from PEM. I wish I had something more helpful to add

I had to chuckle a little bit about your caregiver getting the message you are willing them out of the room. I definitely get that message loud and clear with my son. It’s so difficult because I just want to shower him with care and love. I hate this for him. But I know it’s too hard on him to have us around. It takes too much out of him.

Thank you for your note — it truly resonated with me. I hope for you much healing and renewed energy ❤️‍🩹