Can somebody debunk this?

[Martin aka paused||M.E.]

I feel there's a bit of an agressive tone.

Not at all! And you're questions are not stupid and I never wanted to give you this impression.
I just communicated my thoughts based on what I know. It might be involved. Yes. I only said we need more research on this. And the retrovirus theory has been checked for many years. I'm not emotional on this topic at all and I don't mix your question with the Sars-CoV-2 topic.
I'm sorry if itmade that impression.

 

[Oliver3]

Not at all! And you're questions are not stupid and I never wanted to give you this impression.
I just communicated my thoughts based on what I know. It might be involved. Yes. I only said we need more research on this. And the retrovirus theory has been checked for many years. I'm not emotional on this topic at all and I don't mix your question with the Sars-CoV-2 topic.
I'm sorry if itmade that impression.

Then we're al god Martin.
Thank you for answering my questions.
Things get lost easily in translation on the net.
I do appreciate responses, knowing your sick

 

[Oliver3]

Then we're al god Martin.
Thank you for answering my questions.
Things get lost easily in translation on the net.
I do appreciate responses, knowing your sick

Good

 

[wabi-sabi]

But they are known for treating things that conventional science can't.

Erm well... Their treatments don't actually work. For example, treating cancer with VItamin D exercise and meditation. citation here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC6142094/

Ron himself is looking at herbal remedies and plant ,phyto medicine.

Yes, he's looking at them scientifically, not naturopathically. Merely using botanical medicines isn't naturopathy.

There's a good guide on quackwatch if you want to get into the details: https://quackwatch.org/naturopathy/general/beyerstein/

 

[Oliver3]

Erm well... Their treatments don't actually work. For example, treating cancer with VItamin D exercise and meditation. citation here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC6142094/


Yes, he's looking at them scientifically, not naturopathically. Merely using botanical medicines isn't naturopathy.

There's a good guide on quackwatch if you want to get into the details: https://quackwatch.org/naturopathy/general/beyerstein/

Dude, i could equally pick out "science" drugs that don't work.
Ron himself is working with a naturopath.
Keep your mind open

 

[Oliver3]

Dude, i could equally pick out "science" drugs that don't work.
Ron himself is working with a naturopath.
Keep your mind open

Anyway...I asked my question..got answered..not interested in tit for tat

 

[Rufous McKinney]

So it's the veracity of the endocannabinoid system as an immune modulator that I'm wondering could potentially hold water??

I got interested in this after being very sick recently and resorting to cannabis and gaining immediate relief.
The effect it has on my vascular system is better than any pharmaceutical drug which, if this is a form of vascular autoimmunity, it's th 1 shift and supression of autoimmunity, temporarily makes sense.

I experience considerable improvement in Sickness Behavior and my general condition using some CBD and THC products. Bodies vary, and I am not up to speed on this topic, but I can't imagine surviving this illness without the assistance of this in terms of reducing inflammation, nausea, eye pressure, pain, sleep I can just keep listing.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

The amount of time " science" has got things wrong....see never believing our condition as a prime example, makes a statement about science being the real arbiter of ideas as a tad ironical.
Good science and good naturopaths have their place.
There's lots of knowledge in Chinese herbal medicine which is used. That's a form of naturopathy . So I say keep an open mind

I mostly do Chinese Traditional Medicine.....it entered my life when I was a teenager and it never left and I've experienced more relief from their herbal "system" than any other treatments.

So we have a "system" developed over thousands of years. But not by using the scientific method to test a null hypothesis.

Their system is highly effective at treating symptoms. I won' t say its a cure, but then I"ve never pursued a specific antiviral protocol for ME.

I have "cured" things, that never came back, with CTM.

So CTM is NOT naturopathy. Because the latter, is not based upon any system what soever. Its ad hoc. Random.

the interaction of Herb A and Herb B are almost unknowns, to western naturopaths.

That interaction and many others, is key to successful CTM. As is: proper diagnosis.

Your valuable CTM practitioner, is excellent at diagnosis. So finding this person is the big challenge as CTM herbs is a very complex arena, and expensive to set up a practice. Expensive inventory.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Ron himself is looking at herbal remedies and plant ,phyto medicine.
Its wrong to say that there isn't a solid grasp of science.

and now they want to subject CTM herbs to isolating studies to pin down the one active ingredient, which is NOT how it works.

the naturopaths arose, in response to the huge problem with western medicine simply IGNORING diet, recommended horrific dietary shifts that proved very damaging (eg dont eat an egg), and suggesting who cares about a vitamin. All the bad fats we were told to eat. All the healthy food we were told to avoid.

Thank goodness I ignored ALL the dietary advice passed out by western medicine.

 

[wabi-sabi]

So CTM is NOT naturopathy. Because the latter, is not based upon any system what soever. Its ad hoc. Random.

That's what I've been trying to say!

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Yes, he's looking at them scientifically, not naturopathically.

there is also an "energetic" component to herbology and foods. Just saying. It exists, even if they never study that.

What will be missed is CTM involves multiple complex routes to achieve a desired end point. Teh route to get there in my body, may not work in your body. Hence, CTM is individualized. "Generic" formulas do exist, and are some times commonly used, but its not the core of the system.

By increasing consumption of root vegetables, I reduced "wind" which greatly improved my digestion. This was an energetic shift. Perhaps it occurs because eating warm, oily cooked foods that include root vegetables, is much more readily digested, and we also know from science that Potato Starch calms the gut. We also can look at this type of diet, very ancient, and see how its similar to the Food Map which some western types recommend if you have IBS issues.

The Pharma drug that improves blood sugar, came from bitter gourd, used in CTM.

They extracted the "active ingredient". And of course, this is western medicines favorite drug to put you on if you go Type 2.

My BS has to be managed, and bitter gourd would be the wrong plant to use in my case. Via CTM , I 'd be taking something else entirely, while the western doctor would insist I take the "safe" pharm drug.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

That's what I've been trying to say!

well, spit it out!

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Your valuable CTM practitioner, is excellent at diagnosis.

so they would not diagnosis us as having "ME".... instead, its more like severe Yin Deficiency, Blood Stagnation, various Qi channels blocked, or not flowing.

genetically, being a red head, chinese medicine did not get to practice on you in 1000 BC. So my practitioner had to develop protocols that work on bodies whose genetics does not compute with the chinese.

Yin deficiency means= overheated, inflammed, heat rising, brain inframed, and it is, isn't it? Mine is.

Blood stagnation: we have our somethings, and our non deforming RBC and our oxygen not reaching end organs and brain: so there you go.

I have bulbous lillii syndrome. A term developed in like 800 AD, for being wired but tired, and most likely is our ammonia poisoning issue when we thrash around exhausted but can't seem to rest. A frothy hot cup of tea, make from the root of this lily, reduces WIRED but TIRED.

Thank you, very much.

 

[Oliver3]

I experience considerable improvement in Sickness Behavior and my general condition using some CBD and THC products. Bodies vary, and I am not up to speed on this topic, but I can't imagine surviving this illness without the assistance of this in terms of reducing inflammation, nausea, eye pressure, pain, sleep I can just keep listing.

Yes that's what I'm finding. Although I'm being careful with it and realise it's not for everyone. Trying to keep all options open

 

[Rufous McKinney]

lthough I'm being careful with it and realise it's not for everyone.

there was some discussion in PR on a thread about vascular issues...

I get my surface veins swell up in my hand and it feels really awful, radiates out of a knuckle, is something odd and I suspect, neurological. So I rub THC or CBD type lotions on this vein and the swollen and yucky awful ness subsides and it calms down and stops hurting and feeling horrible. Not via numbing agents.

But somebody else on that thread has an opposite reaction, and finds it causes their veins to inflame.

 

[Oliver3]

That's what I've been trying to say!

No, it's another stream of thought that shouldn't be ignored. Like I said Ron is working with a naturopath.
Tramlines thinking is not good, we have to keep a mind open for all modalities.

 

[dannybex]

If I understand mikowitz right, she's saying retroviruses are causing the destruction of these receptors...

As is SO typical with Mikovits, she offers NO proof to back up her claims -- just like she's done since she was thoroughly discredited 10 years ago. She's claimed that retroviruses are connected to ME/CFS, fibro, autism, Parkinson's, ALS...you name it. But all without ANY proof.

Save yourself time -- and especially energy -- and avoid anything she says, like the Plague. Pun intended.

 

[Iknovate]

There are many comments here which decry real intelligent discovery.

Mikovits is not the only one making claims. Her boss, Francis Ruscetti now defends most of her claims (they do have professional differences of opinion on some research theories) in the book Ending Plague.

But retroviruses can be disseminated by insects. And many Lyme victims also have retroviruses. Lyme specialist Klinghardt honors Mikovits for introducing him to the relationship between Lyme and Retroviruses.

If you're truly interested in discovery, in Part 1 (link is to Part 2) he lays out the known facts as to how Lyme disease in the US was an accidental leak from military warfare research (as related by the person doing the research).

 

[Oliver3]

There are many comments here which decry real intelligent discovery.

Mikovits is not the only one making claims. Her boss, Francis Ruscetti now defends most of her claims (they do have professional differences of opinion on some research theories) in the book Ending Plague.

But retroviruses can be disseminated by insects. And many Lyme victims also have retroviruses. Lyme specialist Klinghardt honors Mikovits for introducing him to the relationship between Lyme and Retroviruses.

If you're truly interested in discovery, in Part 1 (link is to Part 2) he lays out the known facts as to how Lyme disease in the US was an accidental leak from military warfare research (as related by the person doing the research).

Wow that's interesting..and not out if the realm of possibility. I cant see this vid sadly. I've watched klunjghardt before..the chemtrails bit puts me off. But I remain open on all this because we're starting to see how innacurate mainstream science is.
Just listened to a BBC documentary on the innacuracu of science this afternoon. Many assumptions are turning out to be wrong

 

[Iknovate]

@Oliver3 Clicking the Watch on YouTube link doesn't work? Do a search on his channel on YouTube. The series was just introduced 1-2 months ago.

I agree that there is much I've taken with a grain of salt from Klinghardt. But he adapts his perspectives over time so older stuff may no longer be in Vogue. This series is reflective of his current perspectives and is combined with the why (critical).

Indeed, he talks about the issues in medical research, medicine, and the lock held on controlling published research. I am knee deep in the politics of research in general and how careers are manipulated by power struggles as I continue to read Francis Ruscetti's experience inside the NIH. You can't even trust the names that appear in published research papers.

I was looking for but can't just find (need to highlight) Ruscetti's quote about egomaniacs like his former boss Gallo and Fauci.

Here's the problem with transparency, we're suddenly realizing that all the things we believed about our institutions (government and education) have been a lie, carefully crafted for deception. I no longer trust anyone who repeats their lies.