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RANDOM THOUGHTS ...M.E. may have been loitering in human genes for millennia …. didja’ hear the one about the flea that almost ate the world?

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If it seems like we’ve been genetically set up as the punchline for some sort of
grim cosmic joke, we may be right.
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Apparently, if any of your ancestors survived the Black Plague (and if you have any European bloodlines, you can be pretty sure they did, or you wouldn’t be reading this), they apparently left you with a small IOU for that courtesy.


Recent research seems to indicate that the same genes that allowed those lucky few to escape the Black Death did so with a little snigger, because those same genes pushed certain other genetic variants forward, allowing them to become more common in survivors' descendants, as revealed by DNA from the Middle Ages.

And that DNA, having set up shop, as it were, in many of us, may make their modern carriers, the descendants of those lucky Black Plague survivors, more susceptible to various autoimmune diseases.



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The Black Death, or bubonic plague, was a 14th century pandemic caused by the bacterium Yersinia pestis, which probably arrived in Europe from distant lands aboard trading ship’s disembarking rats (they like to browse interesting foreign cultures, too, and check out the local entertainment and cuisine), and killed an estimated 30% to 50% of the population of Europe in just under five years.


Altho another modern study seems to debunk the rat theory, arguing that it was human parasites that allowed the plague to spread so fast and so far ….. well, duhhhh, isn’t like it had its own little Bullet Trains …. but beyond blaming it on a possible beaver bite, the new theory largely begs the issue of where the first human parasitic presence, like lice and fleas, got their dose of the plague, so, you know …. grain of salt.



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The phenomenal level of plague deaths, decimating the ranks of everyone from feudal peasants to their lords and ladies by three to five-times over, left gaping vacancies at every level of society, which would be filled by the ablest and most opportunistic survivors, and would cause devastating social, demographic, and political upheaval that would change the face of Europe, and history, pretty much forever. It’s been argued that it was that social turmoil that eventually enabled witch hunts, witch burnings, and the bloody wars of the Reformation. ….




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But I digress …. for more info, you can’t do better than Barbara Tuchman’s brilliant A Distant Mirror. She’s a remarkably accessible writer, with a deep knowledge and real love of history, and the happy ability to communicate that knowledge in a clear and engaging way….

As an aside, it was from A Distant Mirror that I finally learned what a petard was, and why being hoisted by it was a life-changing experience …. totally changed my life.

OK, it didn’t, but it created an interesting aside ….

Back to what probably interests us all a lot more than the ancient history of a distant continent and island.




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This genetic protection against the plague may have come at a cost. The version of the ERAP2 gene that protects against Y. pestis is also a known risk factor for Crohn’s disease and other autoimmune diseases like rheumatoid arthritis and lupus, among others as yet unenumerated.


And to make it even better, similar genetic trade-offs likely unfolded during other historic outbreaks, both before and after the horrors of the Black Death, like the Great Plague of London during the reign of Charles II, which was only finally eradicated by The Great Fire of London a bit over a year later, in 1666 …. there’s no record of Londoners expressing gratitude for that flaming intervention ….




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…. and before that, Justinian’s Plague in 541 AD, which also took out between a third and a half of Europe’s population, with estimates ranging from 50 to 100 million people. It was the worst plague in history at that point, and maintained that unenviable bragging right til The Black Plague. And hoorah !!!! The echoes of some, or all of, these events may still be present in modern humans' DNA, creating God knows how much distressing mischief. Maybe to you. Or me. Or both of us. Who knows.





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Well, I’ve cheered us up enough for one day. I’m going to go find my pomander and clove-studded oranges, believed during the Black Plague to ward off the noxious fumes thought to carry the dreaded Black Death ….



'Black death' survivors had plague-resistant genes that may boost their descendants' risk of autoimmune disease
https://www.livescience.com/black-death-natural-selection-in-humans
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Comments

Great post, @YippeeKi YOW !! It reminds me of some information I stumbled on 30 or so years ago--at the peak of the AIDS epidemic. At the outset, the demographics that were being most affected, according to the press and scientists were: Haitians, hemophiliacs, injection drug users and homosexuals. You will probably recall.

And there were alarming numbers coming from communities connected to African diaspora (if we may call it that, overly politely) which led people of a certain persuasion to suggest that other people (of color) were perhaps more promiscuous or prone to heroin use.

This was pretty a horrifying suggestion from my point of view so I wanted clarification. I did find support for the reporting that the numbers were higher in communities with African ties--at least at a particular time in history--so I started hunting down why that might be.

The answer I found was adjacent to what you reveal here, Yippee. Apparently, the genetic profile which allowed a percentage of Europeans to survive the black death, and was thus passed down to those of us with that heritage, was such that it made people less likely to succumb to HIV. People of African heritage, where the plague was much less destructive, do not so universally have that profile--are not generally the descendants of survivors of the plague--and thus include a larger group of individuals who are not at all resistant to HIV.

Further --and current--digging reveals that this theory has fallen into disrepute and likely has been disproven, though there is now a question on the table about whether smallpox did the deed.

The complexities of biology (and life itself) seem endless.
 
I thought you were going to opine on the current pandemic and tie it together somehow. Still interesting, though.
I think that everything that could be said about that (at least here on PR) has been said, and I was really taken by the connection between surviving one of the worst plagues in history, but at the expense of the unwitting descendants, nearly 600 years down the road.

If you have thoughts on that other connection tho, this be the place to put 'em !!!! Please, feel free. That's one of the purposes of a blog .... at least until you start blogging here again.

God, I'm subtle ....:):):) :thumbsup::thumbsup: :squee:
 
which led people of a certain persuasion to suggest that other people (of color) were perhaps more promiscuous or prone to heroin use.
I remember !!! It made me spitting made, but I had nothing with which to refute it at the time, other than something along the lines of "Go stuff yerself ..."
Apparently, the genetic profile which allowed a percentage of Europeans to survive the black death, and was thus passed down to those of us with that heritage, was such that it made people less likely to succumb to HIV.
It's so odd ..... DB and I were discssing this very thing ..... he remembered more about the details of the findings re resistance to HIV, tho of course, at that time there was no bridge to the findings in the article I posted here. There were theories, but not the wherewithal to prove or disprove them until years later ....
Further --and current--digging reveals that this theory has fallen into disrepute and likely has been disproven,
I think that's horse shit, concocted by people who need a controversial 'study' (probably published by Elsevier or Frontiers) with which to extract funds in the form of grants .... money I could add that might be better spent feeding starving cildren and thereby reducing their overall susceptibility by increasing their resistance.

But I have no way of proving that, and I'm so beat (I alsmot forgot to post the QUOTE today ..... just not tracking too well) that I can't begin to find a way to say what I want to ..... can I come back, maybe tomorrow, with a fresher brain? I'd loe to dig deeper here ....
The complexities of biology (and life itself) seem endless.
OMIGOD dont they just ???!!!?? And endlessly, bottomlessly confusing, contradictory, and baffling ....

Thank you for taking the time, both you and @Cloudyskies , to share what you know and think !!!! Much appreciated.....:hug::hug::hug: :thumbsup::thumbsup: :mug::mug::mug::mug:


PS .... Not even going to try to clean up typos, so good luck readig this ....
 
i also thought about this recently, that cfs might be in our genes.

i had these ideas in that regard:
- if cave people had this, they would have been left behind and died. in that case the gene shouldnt exist today

but it does, so how did it persist to us today?

- our life / environment might trigger this

or
- it wasnt that bad... maybe something cavepeople did, did heal cfs? i was thinking, what would happen if somebody wouldnt eat for weeks but only drank some water?

but mostly i believe our modern western life style and environment is just garbage and hostile to life.
its not only us humans. also pets are getting more sick its crazy. so many dogs and cats with allergies and food intolerances the last years.
 
i also thought about this recently, that cfs might be in our genes.

i had these ideas in that regard:
- if cave people had this, they would have been left behind and died. in that case the gene shouldnt exist today

but it does, so how did it persist to us today?
Actually, the genes for ME didn't exist in cavemen days, at least as far as we can surmise, because as you stated, if it had, we probably wouldn't be here right now. Survival would have been impossible for cave-men ME-sufferers, because of the far more difficult and physically demanding requirements for survival ....

Apparently, as the article states, the ME gene was more of less spontaneously created by epigenetic restructurings of the gene that protected those lucky people from plague, probably done by the virus that gave you the plague to begin with, which is how their downstream progeny inherited the ME gene and passed in on down the line until, lucky us, were .... uh .... blessed with that by-product of the Black Plague ...


But it does make me wonder how many other aspects of modern illnesses were the by-products of genetic restructurings by floating germs, or vagrant viruses, and also possibly why treating or even diagnosing ME is so flucking difficult, since it isnt in our tissues, it's hiding in our genes.
 
Apparently, as the article states, the ME gene was more of less spontaneously created by epigenetic restructurings of the gene that protected those lucky people from plague, probably done by the virus that gave you the plague to begin with, which is how their downstream progeny inherited the ME gene and passed in on down the line until, lucky us, were .... uh .... blessed with that by-product of the Black Plague ...

but in that case mostly europe and america as of european colonialization would suffer from that bad gene.
i dont know numbers, but i think the whole world is affected by cfs.

i think i've read, but i am very unsure and remember badly, that also the old greeks had cases like this.
a beri beri could always happen when nutrion was bad.

do animals have cfs as well?
 
i dont know numbers, but i think the whole world is affected by cfs.
ANd while it was only Europeans who survived the Plague, other areas of the wrold have had their own plagues, not as deadly or as notable as the Black Plague, but probably enough to shuffle their genetics, too.

As I said in my blog commentary, there were other deadly plagues before the Black Death, including The Plague of Justinian, about 541 AD, which wiped out even more people on a per capita basis, and may have been caused by a virus similar to y. pestis, if not y. pestis itself, and swept thru Asia, North Africa, Arabia, and Europe which would account for the incidence of ME (I dont know about CFS, they're related but different illnesses) in those populations.
i think i've read, but i am very unsure and remember badly, that also the old greeks had cases like this.
If you mean like ME (again, ME and CFS are related, but different, illnesses), I'm not certain, but I'd guess that, no, they didnt. Anyone with the kind of fatigue and potential for wasting that ME could cause to those who had no effective caretaking would be isolated from the general population, and would be pretty much left to die. So records on that would be hard to isolate.
a beri beri could always happen when nutrion was bad.
Not sure how that relates to the Black Plague and ME ....unless you're saying that ME is caused by bad nutrition.
do animals have cfs as well?
Again, not sure, but I don't think so.
 
THIS is an interesting can of worms:
https://me-pedia.org/wiki/Chronic_fatigue_syndrome_in_animals
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1300/J092v06n02_08?journalCode=icfs20
There seem to be a fair number of articles detailing chronic fatigue (not necessarily CFS or ME---but sometimes) in animals.
Quite fascinating.

damn. we have cats too. 2 years before i went down we got kittens from animal shelter which were sick.. cat flu and worms.. for our older cat which was lonely (or so we believed).
but i dont think my disease is related to this as i had first symptoms many years before.
also i am in nursing home now without any animals for years. and i am not better.

i think the correlation is more due to sick people especially chronic ill are often alone and isolated. a sweat hairy nose is a good companion.
our cats lye around same as i do. they just love it when dad is home and chilling. (when i was still at home)
 
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YippeeKi YOW !!
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