The Corrupt History of Medicine | John D. Rockefeller

[GreenEdge]

Microbes are of alien origin? That's some strong stuff you are smoking! Of course there is the panspermia theory; but generally we understand that microbes were the first step in evolution on Earth. Unlike the Biblical story, animals did not just appear overnight, but evolved from microbial lifeforms.

So you believe animals on earth evolved from microbes, but for microbes (on earth) you believe in creation?

Life appeared on earth quickly, so it has to be either creation or panspermia:

The earliest known fossils on Earth date from 3.5 billion years ago and there is evidence that biological activity took place even earlier - just at the end of the period of late heavy bombardment. So the window when life began was very short. As soon as life could have formed on our planet, it did.

I believe in panspermia and that life is as old as the universe itself.

 

[Hip]

So you believe animals on earth evolved from microbes, but for microbes (on earth) you believe in creation?

Microbes themselves would have evolved from simpler self-replicating entities.

Amyloid proteins for example can self-replicate, and it has been suggested such proteins were the very first steps in the origin of life, before RNA and DNA genetics appeared. In lab simulations of early Earth conditions, amino acids, peptides and these amyloid proteins are readily formed. 1



One thing crucial to understand when contemplating the origin and evolution of life is the need for a good source of negative entropy (negentropy), which is an ordering force that allows you to create life out of inanimate matter.

Earth is abundantly supplied with negentropy every day, and without this ordering force of negentropy, no life could ever have evolved.

This is because the 2nd law of thermodynamics tells us that in any isolated system, order can never increase; order can only progress to disorder. In other words, in general, chaos rules in the universe, as everything is destined to fall apart and become more disordered over time.

But life itself contradicts this 2nd law, because living creatures are highly ordered and highly structured assemblies of elements. When life appears in a environment where there was no life before, that is a spontaneous ordering of the disordered chemical elements in that environment into a highly ordered living being.

Even a new baby growing in a womb involves a process of exquisite ordering of chemical elements — elements obtained from the food the mother eats. The mother turns the disordered elements in the food into a highly ordered new living being!

All life processes go against the 2nd law, because the essence of life is order created out of disorder. But because life is based on such ongoing ordering processes, life requires a constant supply of negentropy to function. Without negentropy, there could be no life.

If you put all the appropriate chemical ingredients for life in an isolated flask at the right temperature, it would be impossible for life to appear or evolve, because the 2nd law of thermodynamics tells us that in such an isolated system, you cannot get more order than you started with; the level of order can only remain the same, or progress to further disorder.

But the Earth is not an isolated system, as it has a constant negentropy input. And this constant supply of negentropy is what makes life possible.

The reason Earth is bathed in negentropy relates to the high frequency visible light we receive from the Sun each day, and the low frequency infrared invisible light the Earth radiates back into space.

The energy we receive from the Sun daily is balanced by the energy the Earth radiates back into deep space as infrared (if this energy input and output on Earth were not in balance, the Earth would heat up to thousands of degrees centigrade by the energy from the Sun). So Earth does not actually receive any net energy from the Sun; all the energy received from the Sun is radiated back into space as infrared light.

But here's the thing: high frequency visible light is in a state of low entropy (thus has more order), and low frequency infrared light is in a state of high entropy (which has less order). So from the entropy perspective, the entropy accounts on Earth are unbalanced: the Earth receives much more negentropy from the Sun than it radiates back into space.

The net result is that Earth is bathed in a constant supply of negentropy, which is an ordering force that can be used by living creatures to create order out of disorder.

The constant supply of negentropy not only drives evolution, and the daily routine metabolic processes in our bodies and in all life on Earth, but also drives the creation of ever more ordered societies. Whether we like it or not, we are forced in the direction of increasing order.

When I first read about this fact that Earth is bathed in a negentropy ordering principle (I actually read it in a book by Gary Snyder), I was totally amazed, because it seems so philosophically profound.

 

[GreenEdge]

That's all very interesting. Thanks for the explanation.

When I first read about this fact that Earth is bathed in a negentropy ordering principle (I actually read it in a book by Gary Snyder), I was totally amazed, because it seems so philosophically profound.

I must checkout the book. Do you remember the title? Thanks.

 

[Alvin2]

my post may not be the most profound text there is but i just want to say this:

DEFUND THE GOD DAMN CDC.

Too bad we cannot downvote posts.

This is ridiculous, while i am the first to say there are problems with how we do drug testing and approvals and sales, giving up what framework we do have to protect us from snake oil and poison is the exact wrong way to solve our problems. Unless we want to fail by lying to ourselves.

 

[linusbert]

Microbes are of alien origin? That's some strong stuff you are smoking! Of course there is the panspermia theory; but generally we understand that microbes were the first step in evolution on Earth. Unlike the Biblical story, animals did not just appear overnight, but evolved from microbial lifeforms.

And viruses have always been a vital and integral part of that evolution. When there was only microbial life on Earth, and no higher creatures (no plants or animals), viruses were an efficient means of distributing useful genes to these microbes.

It's this so-called horizontal transfer of genes by viruses that allows microbes like bacteria to rapidly adapt to their environmental challenges, and is one of the mechanisms that bacteria use today to quickly gain antibiotic resistance.

A virus which infects bacteria is called a phage, and such phages can deliver vital package of genes to a bacterium, to confer the bacterium with new capabilities, such as resistance to antibiotics.

Just as humans can go to a library a pick up a book where they learn new skills that increase their capabilities, bacteria can increase their capabilities after being infected with a phage virus, which delivers useful new genes to the bacterium.


Once multicellular lifeforms emerged during our evolutionary history, viruses started to become more of a curse than a benefit, because viral infections can kill or weaken the host; nevertheless, there were still benefits, and about 8% of the human genome consists of ancient viral DNA from past infections, and a some of these viral genes were incorporated into normal human functioning, playing vital roles in bodily operation. An important gene needed for the human placenta comes from an ancient virus.

So viruses are an essential mechanism of survival and evolution for microbial life, but for higher plants and animals they are mostly deleterious or fatal.

where is the evidence? have you been there when it all happend? or did this tell you the same people who believed earth would be flat not so long ago? as with the big bang which now gets in doubt more and more.

the scientific folks also believe natural selection as of charles darwin could not explain the insane adaption and jump in evolution in the short span of time it actually happend. some unknown factors must be there which explain those.

as far as we KNOW, it could also been like in alien prometheus where some big white bald dude drinks a black goo-y substance and then falls into a river and mutates into all living beings.
or non of all of that because we actually live in a simulation?

I don't think we actually have any good data to make definitive statements like that. In many regions, records of diseases and lifespans were simply not kept.

Though we do know in 1850 in Victorian England, the average lifespan was just 40 years. Now, after introduction of scientific sanitation, vaccines, antibiotics, advanced surgery, pharmaceuticals to treat numerous diseases, average lifespan is 80.

true.

true. but 40 years life span was average, due to diseases and starvation. people also could get 80+ years back then. the average lifespan in the west is currently declining again. also people are much more disabled over the time of their life than back then. this is also a number decreasing, the healthy number of years we have in the west.
but if i can choose, life 40..50 years healthy and die fast... or live 20..30 years mostly healthy and die over 50 years... i'd take the first.

In the West we have an abundance of good food available today, thanks to modern efficient farming methods. So you can eat very well these days if you choose to, and our nutritional status today might be better than people from centuries ago, where food was often scarce.

i disagree, the foods we grow are made with fertilizers which do not add any nutrition to the foods. nowadays foods have much less nutrition. but it looks nicer.
basically we are starving ourselves with nice looking and plenty food.
also we starve nature with those practices. we are destroying right now our human health, health of nature and health of animals. current industrialized food chain is not sustainable.

no we do not have a choice what we eat. rich elites and corporations dictate what we can afford and shall eat. in the EU they wanna make laws that Gen manipulated food doesnt have to be declared anymore and can be sold as organic.
and thats just one example of many others.

Do you know that a nasty retrovirus called bovine leukaemia virus (BLV) is commonly found in raw milk, and has been linked to breast cancer in humans.

no and i dont care, because people dont get less cancer these days as back then. often these kind of pathogens also are found in industrial raw milk and not in traditional healthy grass fed cows.
its like with chicken eggs. 1 in 10000(or was it 30.000) eggs has salmonella, but only in industrial eggs, in free range pasture raised its much less.
sick animals make sick products. shocking .

 

[Alvin2]

This is a fairytale you might read in some alternative health literature. It's just deceptive and dishonest alternative health marketing, with no basis in fact. Even today we do not know the root cause of most diseases, and until you do know, you cannot possibly treat the aetiological root.

Agreed.

Personally I subscribe to Prof Paul Ewald's view that in future, we will find most chronic diseases and cancers are caused by the infectious pathogens that we acquire throughout life. This is not proven, it is a theory. But most ME/CFS patients have personal experience of this idea, as they are fully aware how a viral infection can totally destroy one's health.

I agree to a point, it is likely we will find many but likely not most. Heck Alzheimers may be caused by a pathogen and there is evidence that Parkinsons is related to the gut.

Even obesity is linked to viruses: adenovirus 36 is known to cause massive fat gain in mice, and this virus is far more common in obese humans.

I didn't know about this one. But i do remember seeing a documentary about FMT where one recipient became obese afterward despite no change in diet. Turns out her donor was obese.

People who think natural products are benign and effective should note that all these viruses, bacteria, fungi and protozoa that are linked to swathes of chronic disease are also Mother Nature's inventions. Once you appreciate that Mother Nature can and does produce such horrendously toxic entities that can destroy health, you can no longer fully trust Mother Nature.

Correct. Its an easy answer that natural is healthy. There are many natural things that are healthy and many that are not. We need science to separate the wheat form the chaff.

Of course there are many natural things which are healthy, and I like to eat a wholesome diet as free of mass produced processed food as I can. But we should not put our full trust in nature, given that nature's pathogens are the likely cause of most of human disease (in Ewald's view).

Modern medicine has brought us amazing increases in longevity, reducing everything from infant mortality, to end of life care and everything in between. Giving birth is actually quite dangerous for the mother without modern technology. A friend of mine is a midwife, one time we were talking about her training in modern medicine, i once asked her how was all this handled in old times. Her answer, the moms died.

And instead of dying from cancer, heart disease and and many more common ailments we have developed the technology to survive what used to maim and kill millions.

Species in the wild survive by attrition. Medicine, natural or synthetic are human inventions. Without them we could not be able to survive things as simple as a bacterial infection.

It is a comforting myth that ancient humans were healthy, they lived shorter lives and died from ailments we can easily treat today. From antibiotics to vaccines to eradicating scourges like Smallpox and beating things like Measles, Cholera, Leprosy, AIDS and more into submission we have saved tens of billions of lives and reduced human suffering immeasurably. All thanks to science.

That all said we do now have diseases of affluence and we should be putting more resources in understanding and treating them. If we understood the cause we could prevent them in the first place. Prevention is always better than cure.

I think only human higher consciousness and human higher intelligence can figure out what is good and what is bad for us. That's what we should put our trust in.

Correct. We have to find out how things work and test rigorously and honestly the treatments for them.
We need to address things like the replication crisis and we have to not fall for easy answers and convenient lies.

 

[GreenEdge]

The following is a reaction video to a Tucker Carlson interview with Calley Means. It's well worth watching:

I thought I was enlightened about big pharma's antics and schemes until I saw this one! Calley Means is a modern day hero in my opinion.

Check out the original video The REAL Reason Big Pharma Runs Ads on TV (It’s Not for You) @TCNetwork by clicking here: • The REAL Reason Big Pharma Runs Ads o...

 

[GreenEdge]

if there was a miracle plant which would cure all diseases including cancer and prolong life by 50 years you wouldnt even hear about it. the rich elites would consume it secretly themselves and try everything to deny the existence of it. there is absolutely no financial interest in healthy people. zero. not by companies which do the sCiEnCe or by politicians.

Below (for example) could be an attempt to commercialize a known cure for me/cfs???

Successful treatment of myalgic encephalomyelitis/chronic fatigue syndrome using hydrogen gas: four case reports
Hirano, Shin-ichi*; Ichikawa, Yusuke; Sato, Bunpei; Takefuji, Yoshiyasu; Satoh, Fumitake

Why as a gas? A suitable room temperature liquid exists, that's safe to transport and affordable.

 

[linusbert]

Below (for example) could be an attempt to commercialize a known cure for me/cfs???


Why as a gas? A suitable room temperature liquid exists, that's safe to transport and affordable.

well vinegar lowers my postbrandial sugar, but i dont feel a cure yet.
also there is a case report from one women overdoing it with apple cider vinegar and having a potassium deficiency and bone issues.