Substantial improvement with (strange) dietary adjustments

[Wonkmonk]

I also found that plain onion soup (onions, water, nothing else) doesn't cause a lot of symptoms even when I activate the onion enzymes by consuming some of the onions raw.

I now strongly suspect it's the combination with fats that's the problem.

 

[Dysfunkion]

For some reason I haven't totally figured out yet, spinach is one of the worst foods to eat for me. It's even worse than kale, which has similar nutrients.

I think it may be the high choline and/or the high oxalate in spinach. I think oxalate as a cause for all sorts of symptoms is really underappreciated. Many people would probably profit from reducing it in their diet.


Also a problem for me: Pungent brassica (cabbage) and allium (leek, garlic) family vegetables. But again, it seems it's only with fat and protein that the negative effect is most pronounced.

I wonder if it's because I just overloaded my system with oxalates I couldn't handle but I don't think I'm normally oxalate sensitive, I eat garlic all the time (black garlic specifically these days) and it's one of my safest foods actually. In fact I don't know what I'd do without my beloved garlic. It's weird though with the cabbage thing because cauliflower is a staple vegetable for me every week and broccoli doesn't present any big issues either but it's not perfect for me as it's a bit less tolerated than cauliflower just like anything that happens to be green which appears to generally ramp up my immune system a bit more. I am going to give asparagus a try today at a small amount lightly cooked in water and see how I react to that.

 

[Wishful]

just like anything that happens to be green

Just curious: do you have cravings for greens? I can go for years without greens without even wistful desires. My ME is a convenient excuse for not "eating my vegetables".

 

[Dysfunkion]

Just curious: do you have cravings for greens? I can go for years without greens without even wistful desires. My ME is a convenient excuse for not "eating my vegetables".

Sometimes, I eat broccoli semi-frequently and that's enough to keep it down. I crave a good salad sometimes too but I don't know if that's "the greens" or just a taste sensory thing I'm craving.

 

[Wonkmonk]

anything that happens to be green... I am going to give asparagus

Same thing, I basically have to avoid all greens. Asparagus wasn't too bad though, both white and green. I suspect even the green one doesn't have a lot of "green" in it compared to spinach or kale.

 

[Wonkmonk]

do you have cravings for greens?

I wouldn't call it "cravings" but I would really enjoy eating greens, but can't. I think I would just feel better if I could include some in my diet. I think we're made to eat at least some amount of greens although we technically might not need them to survive. But no real "cravings".

I do have real cravings for high-lysine foods (hummus, lentils, cheese) and that makes sense because it's an essential amino acid needed for survival. My diet is very low lysine and I clearly feel that the body wants me to eat more of it.

 

[Wonkmonk]

New insight: Mushrooms before or after high-lysine meals (legumes, hummus, cheese) causes a crash.

I don't have a good theory for why that happens, but I noticed it several times now.

From now, I will make mushroom pasta only my first meal in the morning with spaghetti the evening before and for lunch thereafter.

 

[Wonkmonk]

It looks like mushrooms do cause symptoms when I blend them up to a creamy sauce. I tried simple mushroom paste (mushrooms, some nutritional yeast, water, salt, pasta) with about 1/4 of the mushrooms blended into the sauce. That caused symptoms whereas just eating the mushrooms usually didn't cause symptoms.

I will refrain from blending the mushrooms from now, but what this shows is that even the preparation method might play a role. I will have to check if this applies to other foods as well (e.g., potatos mashed vs. whole).

 

[xploit316]

It looks like mushrooms do cause symptoms when I blend them up to a creamy sauce. I tried simple mushroom paste (mushrooms, some nutritional yeast, water, salt, pasta) with about 1/4 of the mushrooms blended into the sauce. That caused symptoms whereas just eating the mushrooms usually didn't cause symptoms.

What symptoms do you get? I also cant tolerate store bought sauces of any kind. Symptoms vary but usually get head pressure, scalp itch, bloating and also neurological symptoms.

 

[Wonkmonk]

What symptoms do you get? I also cant tolerate store bought sauces of any kind. Symptoms vary but usually get head pressure, scalp itch, bloating and also neurological symptoms.

Same as you, I get a whole host of symptoms, most prominently:
*Headache
*Dizziness, brain fogg
*Fatigue (have to lie down), sleepiness (suddenly fall asleep for up to 2 hours during the day)
*Palpitations, unpleasantly strong heartbeat, higher pulse frequency
*Chest pain
*Nervousness, slight tingling sensations in hands and arms
*Lower back pain
*Pain in various bones and joints
*Upset stomach, bloating, getting slightly nauseous

These symptom flares are 100% correlated with some offending foods or combination of foods and then last for about 3-4 days, which is about the time it needs for the foods to pass the digestive tract. If the offending food is avoided, the symptoms subside.

I am never symptom free, I have most of these symptoms whatever I eat, but to a MUCH lower extent.

I haven't found a way to eat that would make me completely symptom free or set me on a path where I get less and less symptoms over time (just as I got more and more before I did the diet adjustments). I feel like such a diet *could* exist, but I am not sure if it exists or if I will ever find it.

The more I find out, the more complcated it gets.

 

[Wonkmonk]

I have some more evidence that it is in fact a problem that has to do with the microbiome.

Fruit and especially blueberries do not cause severe symptoms, except if the previous or following meal contained legumes or cheese (high-lysine foods, fat seems to make things even worse). But if both the preceding and subsequent two meals (didn't try one so far) are spaghetti (150g white spaghetti plus either one fresh tomato or one fresh Zucchini), no significant symptom flare, even if the third meal contains legumes (I tried falafel, which it seems I can tolerate occasionally).

--> If the blueberries/fruit mix with the high-lysine foods from the previous or subsequent meals, a symptom flare occurs. If consumed two meals further down the road, no significant symptom flare, because no mixing.

This probably wouldn't happen if the problem occurred elsewhere in the body after absorption of nutrients and other chemicals from the foods. The problem is created in the gut, probably by bacteria.

 

[Wonkmonk]

An another important insight is that meal mixing with the subsequent and the previous meal always happens to some extent. 6 hours, or even 12 hours (overnight) between meals is not enough to prevent it. Whatever comes after and before always mixes.

So problematic foods like high-lysine foods or fruit have to be "enveloped" by non-offending meals, the best of which is probably white spaghetti (with their one zucchini or one tomato and salt only)