New theory: lack of inflammation and pyrotherapy

[Mad Hatter]

I don't know if what I'm about to say has already been discussed but I did not find another thread about it.

I am new here, and did only read a bit of what has been said, although I read a lot of remission/ healing stories already.

Given that what seems to work for the most people, albeit temporarily, are antibiotics and especially antivirals (Valacyclovir, Metronidazole).​

​

Given that a lot of medecine modifying our immune response also seem to work for a lot of people.​

​

Given that vaccines, virus infections, and even antibiotics can trigger CFS.​

​

Given that a lot of people with CFS seem to struggle with recurring infections of HHV-6 and EBV (and certainly a lot of other viruses).​

​

Can we conclude that something is wrong with our immune response? More specifically, that even though we do not appear immunodeficient on the exams, we have an issue with our body's immune response? There are often talks about inflammation and how bad it is for the body, but what if in some contexts it was a good thing?

The body itself creates inflammation, so it mustn't be that bad. It makes it easier for the body to get rid of pathogens. The fever is a good thing! What if we lacked fever? I remember a post where a lady healed completely after being feverish and bedridden for 3 months. When I read that it clicked in my head! because I can not remember the last time I was feverish.

So I'm asking you, when was the last time you were feverish? and if you can remember, how were your symptoms right after the fever came down?


All of this reminded me of malaria therapy practiced in the dawn of the last century. The idea was crazy but it worked and the doctor who invented it received a Nobel Prize in 1927: intentionally infect a syphilitic patient with malaria in order to get him so feverish that his body would fight back syphilis, which we didn't know how to cure at the time (think of Nietzsche...)

I'm not saying that you should get infected with malaria. I'm just throwing ideas around. Can very hot and very long baths replicate the effects of a fever? Do we have medecine that artificially create fever? If yes has it been ever tried for CFS?

I think yes because it seems that Ampligen – Interferon inducer does just that, quote from Kevin Lord: "Ampligen makes you feel like you have the flu twice a week. The reality is when you are on it, it is pretty much hell. Hell with hope". He went from severe to mild with it. Unfortunately this treatment is very expensive and not approved in Europe nor US.

What do you think of all this? I'd really like to read your opinions.

 

[Judee]

I do think we need fevers. I don't get them anymore either though there were polls you might be interested in that showed some here do.

https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/cfs-fever-frequency-poll.88170/#post-2405926

https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/for-age-25-w-history-of-chicken-pox-and-me-fever-poll.80376/

Edit: And I do think someone talked about just trying to warm of the body maybe similar to what you mentioned or what that clinic in Germany (?) is doing with Lyme patients. However, I think it was concluded that it has to be a body generated fever or as you said interferon.
Sorry. I can't find that thread though.

 

[Mad Hatter]

I do think we need fevers. I don't get them anymore either though there were polls you might be interested in that showed some here do.

https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/cfs-fever-frequency-poll.88170/#post-2405926

https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/for-age-25-w-history-of-chicken-pox-and-me-fever-poll.80376/

Edit: And I do think someone talked about just trying to warm of the body maybe similar to what you mentioned or what that clinic in Germany (?) is doing with Lyme patients. However, I think it was concluded that it has to be a body generated fever or as you said interferon.
Sorry. I can't find that thread though.

Ok, so there IS a group of people that does not get "sick" anymore!

Some of them even report feeling way better after a fever!

Maybe we can auto-induce fever and get the benefits? I can't help but think there is something to investigate here!

 

[Wishful]

I've only had a few viral infections since developing ME, but they seemed like standard immune responses, including fever. They did make my ME symptoms worse.

 

[Judee]

I also talked about a protocol an engineer created based on Wilson's Temperature Protocol in this thread: https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/t3-monotherapy-for-me-cfs-or-fm.86485/#post-2381952

There's a link but he's very long winded. I have tried that about 5x - twice with Wilsons and probably 3x with his. I just cannot get my temps to stay up in normal range. I thought if I could then maybe I could spike a temp sometimes. Keep in mind that trying these can be physically rough going.

Edit: Here's Wilson's website: https://www.wilsonssyndrome.com/emanual/ (I used microdoses of what he prescribes. I'd be worried to try such high doses with our fragile ME bodies.)

I think I'd rather try microdoses of interferon instead. @Charles555nc talked about that recently.

 

[ruben]

I don't know if what I'm about to say has already been discussed but I did not find another thread about it.

I am new here, and did only read a bit of what has been said, although I read a lot of remission/ healing stories already.

Given that what seems to work for the most people, albeit temporarily, are antibiotics and especially antivirals (Valacyclovir, Metronidazole).​

​

Given that a lot of medecine modifying our immune response also seem to work for a lot of people.​

​

Given that vaccines, virus infections, and even antibiotics can trigger CFS.​

​

Given that a lot of people with CFS seem to struggle with recurring infections of HHV-6 and EBV (and certainly a lot of other viruses).​

​

Can we conclude that something is wrong with our immune response? More specifically, that even though we do not appear immunodeficient on the exams, we have an issue with our body's immune response? There are often talks about inflammation and how bad it is for the body, but what if in some contexts it was a good thing?

The body itself creates inflammation, so it mustn't be that bad. It makes it easier for the body to get rid of pathogens. The fever is a good thing! What if we lacked fever? I remember a post where a lady healed completely after being feverish and bedridden for 3 months. When I read that it clicked in my head! because I can not remember the last time I was feverish.

So I'm asking you, when was the last time you were feverish? and if you can remember, how were your symptoms right after the fever came down?


All of this reminded me of malaria therapy practiced in the dawn of the last century. The idea was crazy but it worked and the doctor who invented it received a Nobel Prize in 1927: intentionally infect a syphilitic patient with malaria in order to get him so feverish that his body would fight back syphilis, which we didn't know how to cure at the time (think of Nietzsche...)

I'm not saying that you should get infected with malaria. I'm just throwing ideas around. Can very hot and very long baths replicate the effects of a fever? Do we have medecine that artificially create fever? If yes has it been ever tried for CFS?

I think yes because it seems that Ampligen – Interferon inducer does just that, quote from Kevin Lord: "Ampligen makes you feel like you have the flu twice a week. The reality is when you are on it, it is pretty much hell. Hell with hope". He went from severe to mild with it. Unfortunately this treatment is very expensive and not approved in Europe nor US.

What do you think of all this? I'd really like to read your opinions.

For many years with ME/CFS I'd get a bad migraine every week or so. But my healthiest times(but it was very brief lasting only a few hours) was when the migraine subsided. !!!

 

[Mad Hatter]

I also talked about a protocol an engineer created based on Wilson's Temperature Protocol in this thread: https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/t3-monotherapy-for-me-cfs-or-fm.86485/#post-2381952

There's a link but he's very long winded. I have tried that about 5x - twice with Wilsons and probably 3x with his. I just cannot get my temps to stay up in normal range. I thought if I could then maybe I could spike a temp sometimes. Keep in mind that trying these can be physically rough going.

Edit: Here's Wilson's website: https://www.wilsonssyndrome.com/emanual/ (I used microdoses of what he prescribes. I'd be worried to try such high doses with our fragile ME bodies.)

I think I'd rather try microdoses of interferon instead. @Charles555nc talked about that recently.

I think raising body temperature via T3 is sketchy, unless blood tests show unusually low T3.

Do you suffer from slow metabolism symptoms? Do you have blood exam showing T4, T3 and FT3?

I personally do not. On the contrary I have slightly overelevated free T3, but I still feel cold when others do not. I have no energy and no libido. My fast metabolism just prevents me from gaining any weight, that's all.


I got an interesting info that maybe deserves a survey: in males, progesterone's main goal is to regulate body temperature. And I happen to have elevated progesterone for a man (I was three times over the max limit, it was a low number in absolute but a big number relatively to the upper limit of the given range). Maybe my body is trying to get hotter this way?