Herb that blocks cytokine production

[Wishful]

https://newatlas.com/medical/plant-anti-inflammatory-immune-system/

Andrographis paniculata (SE Asian herb) has been found to block cytokine production without crippling the immune system the way that other NSAIDs do and without the side-effects of steroids.

The wiki mentions that this herb is used in some traditional medical treatments, although it points out that the effectiveness is lacking in clinical evidence. Still, it's something someone might want to experiment with for ME. An herb with a known effectiveness on the immune system seems a better gamble than an herb with no known effects.

 

[datadragon]

Inflammation is a necessary and normal function, and it can also initiate host defense responses against viruses and intracellular bacteria https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28169000/ and this TH1 response requires NLRP3 activation https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21118671/ Many people lack a good TH1 response and so dont clear the virus.

However, an uncontrolled inflammatory signal and chronic inflammation can cause prolonged inflammatory cytokines production, resulting in serious disorders and tissue damage. Blocking NLRP3 activation can be either protective or detrimental at different stages of lethal influenza A (IAV) virus for example. Administration of the specific NLRP3 inhibitor MCC950 to mice from right at the beginning of infection - day one following IAV challenge resulted in hypersusceptibility to lethality, but NLRP3 plays a detrimental role later in infection if the virus is not dealt with initially with a good immune response and allowed to replicate thus contributing to IAV pathogenesis through increased cytokine production and lung cellular infiltrates. So delaying treatment with the NLRP3 inhibitor MCC950 to lower inflammation until the height of disease rather than right away significantly protected mice from severe and highly virulent IAV-induced disease in later stages, just not early on when the nlrp3 activation initially would have been helpful at the beginning.

SO TIMING IS IMPORTANT whether you are under enhanced inflammation or not https://escholarship.umassmed.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3815&context=oapubs

As your article mentions, Steroids given early in the disease appeared to weaken a person’s innate immunity, which develops when the body encounters a pathogen for the first time. But in a later stage in which inflammation from a virus is rampant they were apparently more helpful. I would also note that the lowering of zinc, vitamin A during infection/inflammation, as well as subsequently lowering butyrate and impacting vitamin D function are all involved with immune function regulation.

 

[Wishful]

I should have asked: has anyone here tried Andrographis paniculata?

 

[hapl808]

Many times. It's a big part of Buhner's protocol. I find it modestly helpful when taken in larger dosages, but have never fully experimented with taking more than the recommended dosing for longer periods. A bit unsure about some of the pulsing protocols.

One of Buhner's books discusses it in some detail.

 

[sb4]

I should have asked: has anyone here tried Andrographis paniculata?

I think @godlovesatrier might have had success with it.

 

[BrightCandle]

I never got on with Andrographis, seemed to worsen all my symptoms very obviously.

 

[godlovesatrier]

Took it for awhile two to three years. But pukka no longer sell it. Problem is that it started to dry my mucous membranes out more so I had to stop it. But it has a big impact on your immune system.

However these things kill and can drive extinct a wide variety of bacteria in the gut. When used long term. So that does a lot of damage which you will never ever recover from. I'm sure one day this will be common knowledge. For now I just have the microbiome tests to prove it.

So taking it short term should be fine. Good for sinus infections and viral infections. I have a huge post on it in the forum you just need to do a forum search

 

[Mary]

I should have asked: has anyone here tried Andrographis paniculata?

I have, it's a great herb. I've posted about it. I agree with @godlovesatrier , andrographis is good for sinus infections and a whole slew of other things. Several years ago one of my sisters had an extremely bad sinus infection - she was on at least 2 and I think 3 courses of ABX for it, but she could not recover. Finally I think it was a nurse practitioner who recommended a Standard Process supplement, the chief ingredient of which was andrographis. I spoke to my sister 2 or 3 days later and could not believe how much better she sounded after a very short time and after being so sick for a few weeks. That's when I started taking it for my recurrent sinus infections which hit every time I crashed.

I think andrographis caused my NK cell function to improve. It was after taking andrographis off and on for a couple of years that my NK cell number was retested and it had gone up a bit.

I've also just very recently started adding goldenseal into the mix - it's pretty powerful too - I take both together if I need to.

 

[Wishful]

Good, that it's been tried, has some effects on health issues, but isn't a magical solution for ME. That suggests that ME's core dysfunction is not due to cytokine production.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

very recently started adding goldenseal

goldenseal was my go to cure all for about thirty years. Then I lost this jar of it, I"d obtained in 1979, and still possessed, in 2017.

I still use it alot topically.

Its probably not the greatest for me to take internally but I'd still do it if I had a seriously bad new infection.

 

[Mary]

@Rufous McKinney - I didn't know you could use goldenseal topically, good to know.

And am very impressed you had a jar from 1979 to 2017!

 

[Mary]

Here's a thread I did about andrographis in 2017 - can't believe it's 7 years ago! How time flies when one is sick . . . anyways, it has a few links which might be worth looking at -

https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...m-have-increased-energy-today-at-least.49349/

 

[ilivewithcfs]

If cumin fails, then I'll consider trying it. NSAIDs were great for a while, they massively diminished my symptoms, but absolutely killed my stomach, so I had to give them up.

 

[Wishful]

Then I lost this jar of it, I"d obtained in 1979, and still possessed, in 2017.

Herbs do lose potency with age. I had some cumin that was maybe 10 years old, and it was maybe half the potency of fresh. Other pills, capsules, etc, can lose potency too. I was horrified when my T2 stopped working. I checked the expiry date, which had passed 2 years earlier, took two capsules, and that worked until I used them all up. Some drugs, such as minocycline become toxic over time.

Some people throw still-good products away when they get even near their expiry dates. Some people use products that should be thrown out. I try to stay between those two.