Has anyone tried an antioxidant protocol?

[cfs since 1998]

Just wondering if anyone has tried an antioxidant combo, such as C/E/NAC/CoQ10/polyphenols, for example.

 

[LINE]

Yes, and been quite effective. Like all of them and polyphenols for sure. I use blends, works better.

Vit C as QualiC (pharma grade, so no fillers)
Vit E as natural, e.g. not synthetic
Alpha Lipoic Acid should be included.
And many other AO/PPs

 

[Rufous McKinney]

I"m taking some more plant-based antioxidants...like

Acai and astragalus and goji berry and something with 40% ellagic acid from Pomegranate extract has helped me alot recently.

 

[linusbert]

i would like too, but i cannot find pure good ingredients.
fat vitamins is hard for me because they always come with crap like glycerin, plant oils and other things i dont take well.
if someone got a source of quali-c sodiumascorbate i'd like that.

 

[LINE]

@linusbert

 

[LINE]

@linusbert Fat malabsorption likely indicates liver/gallbladder stagnation.

 

[linusbert]

@linusbert

thanks. i even have those products here.
but when he went in there with a metallic spoon i flinched.

@linusbert Fat malabsorption likely indicates liver/gallbladder stagnation.

thats interesting, i have a gallbladder polyp, not sure if it impairs it.
but the reaction i get from those fats is more like a immune system reaction.

 

[Carl]

I"m taking some more plant-based antioxidants...like

Acai and astragalus and goji berry and something with 40% ellagic acid from Pomegranate extract has helped me alot recently.

You really shouldn't be using 40% Ellagic acid extracts TBH. There is a paper which warns against using them because they are less effective than the whole product. Large amounts of Ellagic acid is used to promote clotting where it is injected into the circulatory system. It's better to take Pomegranate juice which has lower and safer amounts of Ellagic acid plus Gallic acid which is another beneficial antioxidant.
Beware of pomegranates bearing 40% ellagic Acid
Full article or if it doesn't work enter the DOI from the previous article into a working Sci-Hub link: https://www.sci-hub.wf/10.1089/jmf.2006.9.119

Taken from paper:
Few natural products are as effective as intravenous Ellagic acid for inducing fatal arterial blood clots.

 

[pamojja]

Large amounts of Ellagic acid is used to promote clotting where it is injected into the circulatory system. It's better to take Pomegranate juice which has lower and safer amounts of Ellagic acid plus Gallic acid which is another beneficial antioxidant.

Agree that standardization on Ellagic acid is somehow a helpless way to arrive at just any random standardization. Therefore, mainly used Pomegranate Extracts standardized on Punicalagins. Of which Ellagic acid is a breakdown product.

Since Punicalagins standardized Pomegrenate extracts have become very expensive, I too started to augment with the cheaper one. After all, 40% standardized on Ellagic acid means 60% of other potentially actives of the pomegranate.

However, I would never come to the conclusion of one compound with deleterious effects injected, it would be the same as digested. Also, 100g fresh weight of Pomegranate has 269 mg of Ellagic acid, and therefore just any odd pomegranate just as potentially dangerous - if and when injected only.

Biodegradation​

Urolithins are gut flora human metabolites of dietary ellagic acid derivatives.[3][4] Ellagic acid has low bioavailability, with 90% remaining unabsorbed from the intestines until metabolized by microflora to the more bioavailable urolintins.[4]

Who wouldn't want the hard to get Urolithins, to which it is metabolized with certain rare gut bacteria only?

 

[LINE]

@Carl @pamojja - Interesting perspective, never heard this before. Thanks for sharing.

 

[linusbert]

just short follow up from my mixing experiment with vitamin C powder and sodiumbicarbonate. it didnt work out as i expected. i am somewhat allergic or histamin reacting to the vitamin C powder, already when i am opening the bottle. when i drank it it didnt feel good either.
probably the dr. best quali c powder isnt as pure a source as i would have hoped. or the source plant of the vitamin c is something i do not tolerate.
so i have to keep my old sodium ascorbate product, i have no such reactions from that.

i also noticed when i take my powder, it matters a lot what spoon i use (metallic as well plastic seam to influence it). when i use my plastic spoon it some how is statically charged and the powder looks spiky like a hedghog. not sure if this is good or bad or doesnt matter. when i use my metallic spoon the C tastes metallic which i attribute to femton reaction which is bad and renders the C useless.
how the fuck do i take it... LOL.
i tried to shake it on my backside of my hand and lick it up. that works, but the shaking of the bottle seams to impair the C and it gets bad after a few weeks, tasting metallic which probably means it oxidized.

 

[LINE]

@linusbert Congestion in the liver is something I address frequently. If the liver is burdened (which it is often with autoimmune issues) then things just won't work properly, my experience.

 

[pamojja]

i am somewhat allergic or histamin reacting to the vitamin C powder

Strange. Ascorbic acid powder works as any antihistamine available on prescription against hay fever for me. Without their bad side effects. I only use the cheapest kind, and of course with metallic spoons. No differnence for me. Sodium Ascorbate I would have to get double the amount, to get the same antihistamine effect.

i tried to shake it on my backside of my hand and lick it up. that works, but the shaking of the bottle seams to impair the C and it gets bad after a few weeks

Ascorbic acid in watery solution has a half life of only a few hours. So don't keep it in water already for hours.

When titrating to bowel tolerance one needs to take a lot of ascorbic acid through the day, and since it is best taken dissolved in water, that can give problems with over-hydration. Therefore, I take a heap in the cup of my hand, empty it on my tongue, and gulp it down with one big sip of water.

 

[linusbert]

Strange. Ascorbic acid powder works as any antihistamine available on prescription against hay fever for me. Without their bad side effects. I only use the cheapest kind, and of course with metallic spoons. No differnence for me. Sodium Ascorbate I would have to get double the amount, to get the same antihistamine effect.

it has nothing to do with the vitamin C, its the specific product containing contaminants from production. probably it has too much left overs from the source plant.
i have the same problem with pure glucose powder apothecary grade direct out of apothecary now. somehow 2021 they changed production and i became allergic to the glucose powder. and its only the new batches, i had old and new batches here and the old one was fine and the new one wasnt.
they fucked up supply chains and production of source materials somewhere around 2020-2021.
probably switched from a europe pure grade 99,99% purity to chinese 99,95% which in reality is then something like 89,89%... (no proof for that, but kinda a feeling...)
btw, glucose is the source material for vitamin C.

Ascorbic acid in watery solution has a half life of only a few hours. So don't keep it in water already for hours.

i am talking about powder, its out of the bottle for like 3 seconds before its in my mouth. the only liquid it gets in contact with is my own.

there is no bowel tolerance for ascorbic acid for me, its already 50mg enough to get diarrhea. for sodium ascorbate on the other hand if its made good (if it just tastes like sodium and not metallic or not acidic and not like washing powder) i can take 5-10g no problem with diarrhea. so definitely not a vitamin C issue for me.
i get same problems from stuff like l-carnitine tartrat.
interestingly i do not get it from vinegard - which has the opposing effect, stabilizing my gut preventing diarrhea in general! so one might think it is the acid, it definitely is not. i cannot explain how this comes to happen.

Therefore, I take a heap in the cup of my hand, empty it on my tongue, and gulp it down with one big sip of water.

sounds similiar like i do, just with back of the hand... after all hands are best spoons anyway, have been working for millenia, evolution proof!

 

[pamojja]

..probably switched from a europe pure grade 99,99% purity to chinese 99,95% which in reality is then something like 89,89%... (no proof for that, but kinda a feeling...)

As said, I always used cheapest Chinese Ascorbic acid powder from Supermarkets. Therefore, I once asked in a pharmacist, who basically sells the same for 3 times the price, if they would do any lab-testing of their product, to justify their higher price. The answer was: No testing for which impurities, only for purity at 99,95% of the ascorbic acid.

However, that was years ago. And meanwhile there might have been changes. Your high intolerance to ascorbic acid is a mystery to me. Do you tolerate higher amounts of dietary ascorbic acid? For example, from Acerola cherry powder?

 

[linusbert]

The answer was: No testing for which impurities, only for purity at 99,95% of the ascorbic acid.

thats creepy. so pharmacy grade is basically useless.
if chinese vendors claim its pharmacy grade at 99,5% they probably do not even test that in local country again and just say, its 99,5% - basically what the vendor said.
so our pharmacies are nothing but chinese resellers.

However, that was years ago. And meanwhile there might have been changes. Your high intolerance to ascorbic acid is a mystery to me. Do you tolerate higher amounts of dietary ascorbic acid? For example, from Acerola cherry powder?

i am not the only one here, i read another post that someone is reacting to minor amounts of ascorbic acid too.
plant extracts never work for me, they make my asthma and allergies worse.
i tried direct pressed acerola juice recently, and for that i get 1 day later a course voice and weird feeling in throat... no direct reaction though, its really weird. also i have hours later this acidic taste for everything i eat in my mouth... so i guess not good for me either.
i do not have problems from real acidic things like vinegar. so i do not think its the acidity.

but frankly, why bother if sodiumascorbate works and is also considered the better source. linus pauling did his high dose with sodiumascorbate as far as i know.

natural vitamin C in fruits like pepper or kiwi is no problem.

 

[pamojja]

linus pauling did his high dose with sodiumascorbate as far as i know

Of course, use the form you can tolerate. Pauling did use a little of sodium bicarbonate mixed in water with ascorbic acid. But not as much to let it react completely with AA to Sodium acorbate only. Sodium ascorbates lesser activity - for example as an antihistamine in my case - can simply be improved be higher doses of SA.

if chinese vendors claim its pharmacy grade at 99,5% they probably do not even test that in local country again and just say, its 99,5% - basically what the vendor said.

To clarify: this was a pharmacist, who sells Orthomolecular supplements too, but in Austria only. Whole batches delivered to pharmacies are definitely tested in Austria on its purity by a lab. How that is ascertained in China itself was not part of our exchange.