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B12 and Insomnia

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by arx, Jun 11, 2012.

  1. arx

    arx Senior Member

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    Hi everyone,
    Many times,I am unable to sleep when I take a Methyl B12 sublingual(1000 mcg) at night. I do cover my potassium levels throughout the day. Sometimes I feel a lot of energy after taking a sublingual and sometimes I feel drained out and doze off.
    Does B12 cause insomnia? If yes, any suggestions would be very helpful.

    Thanks.
  2. alwayshopeful

    alwayshopeful

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    arc,
    B12 definitely messes with my sleep. And if I add metafolin to it, there will be NO sleep that night. Even if I take them early in the morning.
  3. L'engle

    L'engle moderate ME

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    I can't nap if i take methyl b12. If I want to catch up on sleep I go off all my supplements for a few days.
    BEG likes this.
  4. arx

    arx Senior Member

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    Wow, this seems like a common problem. :(
  5. place

    place Be Strong!

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    Taking the b12 are to get energy, so it's working if you can't take a nap. I think you can get to much which may keep you up. Can you back off the amount and try the smaller amount in the morning. I don't take any b's past 2:00pm. I don't drink coffee past 1:00 or I will not be able to sleep that night.
  6. L'engle

    L'engle moderate ME

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    Yeah I get a definite benefit from the b12 so it's worth not napping. It doesn't effect my night sleep too terribly, just awake for an hour or two here and there. It's when I add L-carnitine fumarate or DHEA in any quantity that the whole night and day can go by with almost no sleep. :sleep:
  7. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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    Tundras of Europa
    It seems methylcobalamin lowers melatonin levels. I take 0.3mg of time released melatonin before bed, and have no trouble sleeping.

    arx likes this.
  8. TheMoonIsBlue

    TheMoonIsBlue Senior Member

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    Hey Adreno, what brand of melatonin are you taking? I've never seen a Time Release melatonin in such a low dose...usually they are atleast 1-3 mg. Then again I havent looked lately.
  9. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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  10. TheMoonIsBlue

    TheMoonIsBlue Senior Member

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    ahhh....thanks!
  11. arx

    arx Senior Member

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    You guys living in the US and Europe are really lucky. Here in India there is just ONE website which has Jarrow,Source Naturals,Country Life,etc. products. It's quite expensive too,about 2.5-3 times of the cost on iherb. Anyone tried out international shipping from iherb, esp. in India? I read the procedure is pretty complicated,and turns out to be very expensive. :confused:
  12. BEG

    BEG Senior Member

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    Yeah, very convenient if I need to stay awake in the afternoons. Better than coffee because it doesn't interfere with nighttime sleep if I take it near lunchtime.
  13. place

    place Be Strong!

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    L Carintine keeps me up all night!

    Adreno- You rock!

    Arx- I had in-laws from europe. When they came to visit they would stock up as much as customs would allow. Not just for them, there friends would place orders due to the taxes in Europe. You might want to try this route?
  14. arx

    arx Senior Member

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    Yeah,I'll try something like that.Thanks,place.
  15. greenshots

    greenshots Senior Member

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    Some people who are overstimulated by methyl do beter on hydroxy. My doc explained something about overly sympathetic nervous system people to my biomed gp a while back but I was one of the hosts and couldn't really pay attention. but I know those people tend to have more problems with being restless and maybe more hyper but tired.
    Lotus97 likes this.
  16. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    HI Greeshots,

    I'm going to mention that much of the effect of mb12 on sleep is NOT due to methylation, it is involved in neurotransmitter generation and melatonin generation with some xx hours of offset, and knowing that xx hours offset can make a sizable difference for a person. My sleep was totally poor for 20 years or more. Length of sleep and quality of sleep are two different things. Mb12 also is converted to some extent to adb1 in most people and can actally cause ATP startup which interfers more with sleep. Hydroxcbl doesn't affect these things becasue hydroxcbl doesn't affect 2/3 of the things the combination of both active b12s do affect. What you are seeing is the 1% effectivness of hydroxcbl, not a good attribute. A controlled titration with mb12 and adb12 will work better, far better, at normalizing things.



    DISCLAIMER

    I am a self taught systems analyst and consultant working in group healthcare since 1979, full time in group healthcare since 1985. I am not credentialed, certified or licensed to do anything besides drive a car. I have been disabled by the disease processes being discussed and affecting neurology in a multitude of ways for 10 years and impaired in a variety of ways and levels for 54 years before that. Everything I say is my opinion, synthesis, understanding or otherwise of my own creation except direct attributed quotes. Approximate paraphrases are also my interpretation of what I have read. All of this is at best my data analysis, understanding, synthesis and hypotheses and not to be construed as medical advice. I am not responsible for anything you do with any information provided in any way. Anything you do is your own responsibility and at your own risk. There are no published peer reviewed studies backing up my opinions or statements, except the incidental ones quoted or implicit in my synthesis or understanding, and then only in so far any reading of such papers may confer. Your interpretations, actions and variations of what I say are strictly at your own risk.
  17. arx

    arx Senior Member

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    Hi Freddd,

    I have started off with Country Life's adb12 (3000mg). Took half tablet the first day(around 4-5 days back) after taking mb12 but felt a bit wired and hyper. Next day took quarter tablet, and continuing to take a quarter tablet and will slowly increase. My insomnia started the day I started taking the adb12 sublingual. I'm still working on the titration to find out the correct amount of mb12 and adb12 for me. I want to build up on adb12 first and then add acetyl l carnitine to it(as you suggested).
    Any other suggestions for the insomnia which seems to be triggered by mb12/adb12?

    Also, I want to discuss one more thing with you. Last month,when I started off the active b12 protocol, I had ordered the Now foods 1000 mcg mb12. I was not taking adb12 then.The feeling which I got after taking the Now foods sublingual(considering potassium is covered) included some sensations in my nerves, especially in my spine and head(which are my most affected areas). I thought of these sensations as an indication that those affected areas are being healed(the sensations are hard to explain,but consider them as some 'action' taking place in the nerves in my head and spine). Now, I have switched to Jarrow 1000mcg mb12. After taking Jarrow, I do not experiences those sensations which I did with the Now sublingual.What could this observation mean? A question which comes to my mind is that was Now's mb12 more effective for me, or is my understanding incorrect.

    Thanks.
  18. Lynn_M

    Lynn_M Senior Member

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    Arx,
    I imagine Freddd might suggest going back to the NOW mb12 sublingual and see if you still get that effect, and then try switching back to Jarrow. An A-B-A-B trial. Now if you don't have any NOW mb12 left, I don't know if it would be worth buying more to find out if it's a brand issue or if you've just experienced a beneficial startup effect.
  19. arx

    arx Senior Member

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    Yes,Lynn. I might consider buying the NOW mb12 again. Would also like to know what Freddd has to say on this.
  20. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Arx,

    There are two effects that may be affecting sleep. Both adb12 and mb12 might be involved. Switching to an mb12 that only works at 20% effectiveness and doesn't appear to provide the neurological benefits seems to me to be a bad choice. My sugestion would be to hold off on the adb12 for a week or so, taking just the mb12 and moving it up or down as needed to find where there is a little neurological brigtening without causing insomnia. If that isn't possible, ie it is an ATP effect from the adb12 instead of a neurological effect of mb12 you will find that out. TMG can often help smooth that out with the adb12 and l-carnitine. I would suggest it is beneficial to get these things squared away before adding the carnitine. Going to the NOW becasue it has less neurological effectiveness would be a poor choice since the neurological effect is what is needed. Healing with metafolin can be triggered with as little as 50mcg or so of mb12.

    Sleeping often becomes more conscious aas the neurology is waking up. I have been watching somebody in detail lately and the disturbed sleeping patterns are becomoing more normal about to months in. The person has changed from several naps a day plus an 8 hour sleep to about 6 hours sleep with one nap remaining and that is gettting shorter. The research indicated that total length of sleep decreases while restorativeness of sleep increases. One of the things that changes is that many people never get into deep sleep well while in deficiency, they have lots of shallow, non restorative sleep. This slowly normalizes and mb12,adb12, LCF, TMG and Metafolin at the very least are all involved

    TMG might help.

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